11779 replies to this topic

[On the Level]

We went into closed for the reason of legal.

 

I see that the twitter "inside" account reporting on many things is silent and has been for some time.  I do hope that she/he is OK and is not just more collateral damage.

 

I appreciate council having reflection to bring forward meeting content that violates provincial rules for the Community Charter.  

 

I trust that the massive uptake of "in closed" meetings for CoV Council these past 2 years might be reduced given the focus on what should not be hidden in discussions?  There are millions in Provincial and Federal funds in flight.

[Victoria Watcher]

Thanks for your response and your optimism! I hope you are right although I can’t see why the flow that has been taking place for several years already will stop if we just continue to offer yet more free housing and services.

I think we are very close or may have already reached the tipping point in Victoria proper. I don’t know that we can absorb much more, if any.

the tipping point?

we are already the largest homeless housing provider in all of North America.

[Stephen Andrew]

If we can provide shelter why are we allowing any camping whatsoever in the parks. The court order was that overnight camping was to be allowed only if there is no shelter spaces.

You refer to what is know as the “Adams Decision”

Actually, we do not - at present - meet the standard set forth in that court opinion.

We need enough spaces to be able shelter/house everyone camping.

I believe that time will come. Wouldn’t that be great?

Then question then comes, will a majority of council support a total end to camping in parks if sufficient shelter is available?

Personally, I would.

But, as I say, we are several months away from that point and we would need a robust centralized system of identifying where the shelter was available and how to triage those outside to the spaces.

[Victoria Watcher]

But, as I say, we are several months away from that point and we would need a robust centralized system of identifying where the shelter was available and how to triage those outside to the spaces.

 

the current providers do not even provide once-daily information to the 211 system.  good luck getting them to be more transparent.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 April 2021 - 06:09 AM.

[Mike K.]

Is council not discussing the issue of induced demand? It’s hard to see an end to homelessness when individuals from across this province and country who have exhausted support networks back home know that if they come to Victoria they will receive free housing and supports, eventually. And in the meantime they can tap into the most comprehensive social services network in North America.

Six houses have gone up for sale within a block of the planned BC Housing facility on Catherine Street because the public is worried council is emulating Burnside-Gorge in Vic West. The number of listings is historic for such a small area, all within days of each other. On Russell Street there are three listings suddenly, too.

Currently neither BCH or the CoV are addressing the plans in any meaningful way beyond telling everyone to wait, and I don’t think the problems that became Burnside-Gorge’s reality are going to be mitigated in Vic West unless council introduces operational standards for BC Housing’s new operations.

The other concern I’m hearing is people are wondering whether elected officials are planning to enter the housing industry in some way, like with Red Cedar.

[Stephen Andrew]

I see that the twitter "inside" account reporting on many things is silent and has been for some time. I do hope that she/he is OK and is not just more collateral damage.

I appreciate council having reflection to bring forward meeting content that violates provincial rules for the Community Charter.

I trust that the massive uptake of "in closed" meetings for CoV Council these past 2 years might be reduced given the focus on what should not be hidden in discussions? There are millions in Provincial and Federal funds in flight.

You know, before The by election I reached out to “inside” to try and understand what their issue was with in camera meetings. It came to nothing. There was no substantive detail and it appeared that person really didn’t know what was going on or even really knew what was being said in the closed meeting.

So, now I’m in the “closed meetings” I will lift the lid ... 😱

Every week there is a closed meeting and an agenda attached.

For every item on the closed agenda there is a reason under the municipal act. Essentially we talk about land, legal and personnel. Add to that inter governmental relations.

I have yet to see anything that really should not be discussed in closed.

There are times the discussion sways from the original intent and I assure you there are councillors that immediately raise a point of order and point out that it’s inappropriate. I believe this happens only because of the natural flow of discussion. There appears no intent to “hide anything”.

It is good governance and efficient procedure.

It appears “inside” had issues with a procedure when everyone except leaves the chamber and our city manager talks directly with council. This section is also in closed.

Without breaking any confidence, we speak generally about personnel. We will ask questions such as “how are staff doing?, how are you doing? How are we handling issues from a personnel perspective etc. We “may” get a heads up about retirement in the next few months or year. There is nothing malicious or inappropriate. It is very helpful.

Rest assured, if it shouldn’t be in closed - at least when I’m there - it won’t be.

Also, it is my hope we will soon have a policy about reporting all closed content and associated vote splits.

I hope that helps to alleviate any suspicions.

[Nparker]

...Actually, we do not - at present - meet the standard set forth in that court opinion. We need enough spaces to be able shelter/house everyone camping...

What is being done to ensure there isn't a continuous flow of people coming from outside the CoV knowing that if they pitch a tent in a city park they will eventually be given housing?

[Stephen Andrew]

Is council not discussing the issue of induced demand? It’s hard to see an end to homelessness when individuals from across this province and country who have exhausted support networks back home know that if they come to Victoria they will receive free housing and supports, eventually. And in the meantime they can tap into the most comprehensive social services network in North America.

Six houses have gone up for sale within a block of the planned BC Housing facility on Catherine Street because the public is worried council is emulating Burnside-Gorge in Vic West. The number of listings is historic for such a small area, all within days of each other. On Russell Street there are three listings suddenly, too.

Currently neither BCH or the CoV are addressing the plans in any meaningful way beyond telling everyone to wait, and I don’t think the problems that became Burnside-Gorge’s reality are going to be mitigated in Vic West unless council introduces operational standards for BC Housing’s new operations.

The other concern I’m hearing is people are wondering whether elected officials are planning to enter the housing industry in some way, like with Red Cedar.

Wow - a lot to unpack here.

I speak to what I know and experience.

I live in Burnside Gorge, so I am very familiar with the issue of supported housing and emergency shelters being “dumped into the neighbourhood”. I say “dumped” because there is no better term.

Several facilities were opened without any sense of trying to integrate or work with the community or operate with any accountability whatsoever. It was appalling.

Our community was in crisis. We because “the centre of crime” for the city. We knew it was bad, but found out how bad things had changed in the community from an off the cuff remark from the VicPD Spokesperson. It was and is still bad.

I formed, together with others a Facebook group, “Burnside Gorge Neighbours”. Today we are 600 strong.

We advocated, engaged and worked with the Burnside Gorge Community Association.

We campaigned door to door, street by street to enhance the block watch program.

We recorded and reported any and all activity that was detrimental to the community.

We assisted those in crisis situations - such as women in distress walking down our streets crying in some sort of psychosis or people, dazed and cognitively impaired, walking into major Streets and at risk of being struck by vehicles. It was and is a group to make our community safer.

We realized from the beginning we were going to have to make the best of the situation.

We did.

Our community enhanced our Community Advisory Committees. We engaged our MLA. We frequently talked to our community resource officers. We became active and adept.

Burnside Gorge learned a lot. It has a lot of knowledge it can share.

My understanding is our community leaders tried to share this with VicWest, but they are unable or unprepared to listen at this time.

I totally understand their concerns and fears. I live it.

My recommendation is for VicWest to request a meeting with their council liaison.

They should organize and engage.

They should be heard.

And BC Housing and the operator of the facilities in that community need to listen and respond to concerns.

The city needs to listen and address concerns.

We need to learn frock past mistakes and ensure they are not repeated in VicWest as the facilities open.

I’m happy to facilitate any discussion or share our lessons learned with anyone.

The reality is screaming and yelling won’t help. The government shuts down. You HAVE to get the lines of communication open.

[Stephen Andrew]

What is being done to ensure there isn't a continuous flow of people coming from outside the CoV knowing that if they pitch a tent in a city park they will eventually be given housing?

We do have a Charter of Rights that allows free movement in Canada. Unless you want to end those rights.....?

I hear your point.

I suggest we need to publicly say we’re we stand while changing some really bad policy on centralizing supports and services.

We need to create a regionally distributes model so we are not, in essence, “the path of least resistance”.

May I suggest that some in our city need to wake up to the fact we can’t go it alone?

Compassion with realistic decisions.

[Victoria Watcher]

May I suggest that some in our city need to wake up to the fact we can’t go it alone?

Compassion with realistic decisions.

 

you expect saanich to say "hey we really like what victoria is going through, let's get on the program!"

 

give your head a shake.

[Banksy]

Lisa Helps and Council are now trying to close the floodgates they opened knowing an election cycle is one year away. They will do anything to make it look like they are succeeding at solving a by design unsolvable catastrophe by pushing people with severe mental illness and drug addictions into neighbourhoods to try and save downtown Victoria from an economic disaster that is growing bigger with each passing week.

Council destroyed burnside Gorge and that neighbourbood is fed up to where people call the radio crying about violence and disorder so what do they do at city hall they push their policies to Vic West and as long as they can issue a press release congratulating themselves for clearing parks even for a moment they will consider this a success and await the election results next year.

Ladies and gentlemen we have a problem so complex and so difficult on our hands that it will not be solved by moving people indoors who don’t need housing but critical life saving institutionalized intervention to help them drop the deadly drugs they are hooked on and will do whatever it takes to get and I do stress whatever it takes. Police are telling people near the BC Housing buildings to start protecting their properties now because it’s going to get ugly real fast and what are we seeing from council? Nothing but heroic historic efforts to line them up for re election. Never forget that four of them voted to maintain the disastrous status quo because it will be easier to manage the influx of new people Council knows is unstoppable now that the whole country knows what Victoria is only too eager to provide for anyone who wants in. All of this is by design and the residents are being toyed with believing politicians are working hard to end the very system they created and have worked to perfect for ten years. The only way this ends is with a complete elimination of housing projects that year after year are built with promises of ending homelessness but end up making everything much worse.

[Nparker]

...Ladies and gentlemen we have a problem so complex and so difficult on our hands that it will not be solved by moving people indoors who don’t need housing but critical life saving institutionalized intervention to help them drop the deadly drugs they are hooked on...

Truth.

[sebberry]

Wow - a lot to unpack here.

I speak to what I know and experience.
I live in Burnside Gorge, so I am very familiar with the issue of supported housing and emergency shelters being “dumped into the neighbourhood”. I say “dumped” because there is no better term.
Several facilities were opened without any sense of trying to integrate or work with the community or operate with any accountability whatsoever. It was appalling.
Our community was in crisis. We because “the centre of crime” for the city. We knew it was bad, but found out how bad things had changed in the community from an off the cuff remark from the VicPD Spokesperson. It was and is still bad.
I formed, together with others a Facebook group, “Burnside Gorge Neighbours”. Today we are 600 strong.
We advocated, engaged and worked with the Burnside Gorge Community Association.
We campaigned door to door, street by street to enhance the block watch program.
We recorded and reported any and all activity that was detrimental to the community.
We assisted those in crisis situations - such as women in distress walking down our streets crying in some sort of psychosis or people, dazed and cognitively impaired, walking into major Streets and at risk of being struck by vehicles. It was and is a group to make our community safer.
We realized from the beginning we were going to have to make the best of the situation.
We did.
Our community enhanced our Community Advisory Committees. We engaged our MLA. We frequently talked to our community resource officers. We became active and adept.
Burnside Gorge learned a lot. It has a lot of knowledge it can share.
My understanding is our community leaders tried to share this with VicWest, but they are unable or unprepared to listen at this time.
I totally understand their concerns and fears. I live it.
My recommendation is for VicWest to request a meeting with their council liaison.
They should organize and engage.
They should be heard.
And BC Housing and the operator of the facilities in that community need to listen and respond to concerns.
The city needs to listen and address concerns.
We need to learn frock past mistakes and ensure they are not repeated in VicWest as the facilities open.
I’m happy to facilitate any discussion or share our lessons learned with anyone.
The reality is screaming and yelling won’t help. The government shuts down. You HAVE to get the lines of communication open.

 

And none of this should have been made necessary in the first place.

[Banksy]

Wow - a lot to unpack here.

I speak to what I know and experience.

I live in Burnside Gorge, so I am very familiar with the issue of supported housing and emergency shelters being “dumped into the neighbourhood”. I say “dumped” because there is no better term.

Several facilities were opened without any sense of trying to integrate or work with the community or operate with any accountability whatsoever. It was appalling.

Our community was in crisis. We because “the centre of crime” for the city. We knew it was bad, but found out how bad things had changed in the community from an off the cuff remark from the VicPD Spokesperson. It was and is still bad.

I formed, together with others a Facebook group, “Burnside Gorge Neighbours”. Today we are 600 strong.

We advocated, engaged and worked with the Burnside Gorge Community Association.

We campaigned door to door, street by street to enhance the block watch program.

We recorded and reported any and all activity that was detrimental to the community.

We assisted those in crisis situations - such as women in distress walking down our streets crying in some sort of psychosis or people, dazed and cognitively impaired, walking into major Streets and at risk of being struck by vehicles. It was and is a group to make our community safer.

We realized from the beginning we were going to have to make the best of the situation.

We did.

Our community enhanced our Community Advisory Committees. We engaged our MLA. We frequently talked to our community resource officers. We became active and adept.

Burnside Gorge learned a lot. It has a lot of knowledge it can share.

My understanding is our community leaders tried to share this with VicWest, but they are unable or unprepared to listen at this time.

I totally understand their concerns and fears. I live it.

My recommendation is for VicWest to request a meeting with their council liaison.

They should organize and engage.

They should be heard.

And BC Housing and the operator of the facilities in that community need to listen and respond to concerns.

The city needs to listen and address concerns.

We need to learn frock past mistakes and ensure they are not repeated in VicWest as the facilities open.

I’m happy to facilitate any discussion or share our lessons learned with anyone.

The reality is screaming and yelling won’t help. The government shuts down. You HAVE to get the lines of communication open.

None of this is your fault Stephen you just joined council and are forced to untangle your colleague's destructive path but no community should ever have to repeat what Burnside was thrust into but that is what is happening you are repeating everything just in other neighbourhoods and when BC housing is totally silent you ask us to open communication with them. I am told Sharmarke does not reply to emails and he is the Vic West liaison.

 

I have  zero faith in Victoria protecting its citizens from BC Housing's agenda because the politicians are already planning reelection but living near the Meares Street building site I have heard nothing from BC Housing and they are not open to talk to us except for the generic mailers they sent.

 

Stephen it's over and you know it. Victoria has changed forever and this plan like every other plan will do nothing to stop the decay of a once grand city.

[sebberry]

How will the 'if you have a place lined up you can stay' enforcement be handled?  Daily ID checks?  Camping passports?

 

Perhaps we can re-locate all the tents in the region to one park and manage it via controlled access.  What sorts of trouble in the community will those who have to pack up at 7AM be causing?

[Victoria Watcher]

the pack up at 7am guys are nearly non existent.

they eventually go to shelters or move in with friends or family.

[Nparker]

Centennial Square should be designated as the only remaining camping spot so that the folks at City Hall can never forget the disaster they have enabled.

[SimonH]

you expect saanich to say "hey we really like what victoria is going through, let's get on the program!"

give your head a shake.

My favourite post so far this year.

[todd]

We do have a Charter of Rights that allows free movement in Canada. Unless you want to end those rights.....? ...

I think they just did that few days ago.

[A Girl is No one]

I think they just did that few days ago.

Right! Our own beloved mayor said this is a humanitarian crisis. Certainly worth some extreme action! 😉

Edited by A Girl is No one, 21 April 2021 - 09:37 AM.