11779 replies to this topic

[sebberry]

My early 80s building near-ish the Jubilee has no spaces available, and someone who does have a space but no car or ever lets anyone park there refused to rent it out.

[Nparker]

I have had some headaches renting out my parking space in the past. Now I insist on e-payment and offer a discount if they pay 3 months at one time.

[North Shore]

In at least two cities in Japan that I'm familiar with (Tokyo, Nagano,) before you can buy a car you have to prove to the city that you actually have a place to park it.

[Rex Waverly]

Crosstown will have a seperate commercial phase. The first phase includes those stalls.

 

The point I'm making is parking is in plentiful supply at social housing projects, which doesn't make sense if parking is a contributor to un-affordability of housing. Whether they're downtown or not is not the issue at hand, though, but the theory that by removing parking housing will be affordable. We seem to have the exact opposite playing out at the moment.

 

And like I said these are just a few examples. Plenty of active BC Housing-backed projects are making their way through planning with more parking than comparable market projects would include.

 

 

I mean, it's pretty obvious buildings with less parking will be more affordable.  If you had two identical residential units, with the only difference being one had parking and one didn't, which would be more expensive? 

 

And, if they truly are building affordable housing with more spaces than typical (which i'm not convinced is the case) than that makes no financial sense at all. People in affordable housing have significantly lower rates of car ownership, so these developments would therefore have a significant amount of wasted parking space that isn't being used.  I'm not an economist but wasting land on unused parking spaces doesn't seem affordable to me.

[sebberry]

I have had some headaches renting out my parking space in the past. Now I insist on e-payment and offer a discount if they pay 3 months at one time.

 

That reminds me - my property management company doesn't have a wat to take e-payments for strata fees.  They ended up 'setting up a special account' to accept them from me and I don't think they offer it to anyone else.

[sebberry]

I mean, it's pretty obvious buildings with less parking will be more affordable.  If you had two identical residential units, with the only difference being one had parking and one didn't, which would be more expensive? 

 

And, if they truly are building affordable housing with more spaces than typical (which i'm not convinced is the case) than that makes no financial sense at all. People in affordable housing have significantly lower rates of car ownership, so these developments would therefore have a significant amount of wasted parking space that isn't being used.  I'm not an economist but wasting land on unused parking spaces doesn't seem affordable to me.

 

I think you'd be surprised how many people living in affordable housing are 1) gainfully employed, 2) have a family and/or kids and 3) have a car to facilitate the above.  

 

Not everyone living in affordable housing is destitute.  

[Mike K.]

My 90s build condo in Fernwood definitely has extra spots for rent. Our household recently went from two cars to one, and the extra spot we rented at $30/mo has been vacant for 6+ months now.

 

And I think that makes sense as driving becomes more expensive.

 

But then you have social housing projects emerging all over the CRD with a 1:1+ ratio of suites to stalls, while market rentals are something like 1:0.75 or less, and condos definitely drag that number lower especially in the core and periphery. If the theory is people with lower incomes have fewer vehicles, you'd think municipalities would encourage less parking provisions but that's not happening.

[Mike K.]

I think you'd be surprised how many people living in affordable housing are 1) gainfully employed, 2) have a family and/or kids and 3) have a car to facilitate the above.  

 

Not everyone living in affordable housing is destitute.  

 

Exactly.

 

So the twist of irony is someone buying a studio condo in Victoria cannot even ask for (pay for) parking with their suite, but someone renting a studio below-market apartment financed by BC Housing has the option of securing two parking stalls.

[marks_28]

This discussion on below market housing having more parking than market rate condos, could it be that the below market are less prevalent in the core and maybe there is more surface parking, or at least underground doesn't have to go as deep, as say a new build downtown? I'm not too familiar with the projects you mentioned, so maybe I'm wrong on this, but the thought comes to mind. Just think the cost of parking might be cheaper on some of these projects, given (if) that they aren't in the downtown core, so they can provide more of it.

[spanky123]

I think you'd be surprised how many people living in affordable housing are 1) gainfully employed, 2) have a family and/or kids and 3) have a car to facilitate the above.  

 

Not everyone living in affordable housing is destitute.  

 

IIRC, the chair of one the school boards mentioned a while back that her family lived in affordable housing! Isn't the upper limit something like $140K for a family to still qualify?

 

Edit: Checked BC Housing and it can be up to $163K annual income for some projects. 

Edited by spanky123, 05 May 2021 - 02:48 PM.

[Mike K.]

Hudson Place Two with 245 suites will have 308 parking stalls. There is a commercial component on the ground floor, but that's a lot of parking at 1:1.25. 1025 Johnson will have the fire hall, with 117 stalls in a building with 130 residences. Obviously a larger number will be allocated to firehall/etc use.

 

106-units at Michigan Square will come with 73 stalls. 154-units at Caledonia will come with 109 stalls. Those are very large parking ratios if the theory is people depending on affordable housing cannot afford cars.

[spanky123]

^ I would suggest that most families with income of $163K can afford a car (or two)!

[Rex Waverly]

Okay, I'm getting a bit unclear here; are we talking actual affordable housing (i.e. BC Housing, subsidized, etc) or are we talking '10% less than market price' affordable housing?  They should absolutely not be confused with each other...

 

When i say parking rates are lower for people in affordable housing, I'm saying that, based on multiple studies done of parking demands at residential sites of both market and subsidized housing, is that residents of subsidized housing, in similar housing types (i.e. apartment / townhouse, number of bedrooms, etc) in similar locations (downtown / suburban), have a markedly reduced parking demand than market rate housing.  

[lanforod]

My early 80s building near-ish the Jubilee has no spaces available, and someone who does have a space but no car or ever lets anyone park there refused to rent it out.

 

Half your posts are about how crappy your building and neighbours are. Which building, so I never buy there? 

[Mike K.]

Okay, I'm getting a bit unclear here; are we talking actual affordable housing (i.e. BC Housing, subsidized, etc) or are we talking '10% less than market price' affordable housing? They should absolutely not be confused with each other...

When i say parking rates are lower for people in affordable housing, I'm saying that, based on multiple studies done of parking demands at residential sites of both market and subsidized housing, is that residents of subsidized housing, in similar housing types (i.e. apartment / townhouse, number of bedrooms, etc) in similar locations (downtown / suburban), have a markedly reduced parking demand than market rate housing.

We’re talking BC Housing and affordable housing providers. Affordable housing projects appear to have equal to or higher ratios of parking than market projects.

And to add to that, Victoria’s older stock of rentals also have better parking, and they tend to be more affordable. So there appear to be a correlation in this region between more affordable housing and access to on-site parking.

[sebberry]

Half your posts are about how crappy your building and neighbours are. Which building, so I never buy there? 

 

2334 Trent St

[sebberry]

2334 Trent St

 

Told you it was near the Jubilee.  Sorry, was that insensitive?  Going to tick off the woke folk now.

[sebberry]

We’re talking BC Housing and affordable housing providers. Affordable housing projects appear to have equal to or higher ratios of parking than market projects.

And to add to that, Victoria’s older stock of rentals also have better parking, and they tend to be more affordable. So there appear to be a correlation in this region between more affordable housing and access to on-site parking.

 

 

One could also suggest that lower income workers are working odd hours at grocery and retail stores that may not be properly serviced at odd hours by transit, or working multiple jobs makes transit difficult to travel between them.  Or maybe they're providing housecleaning services and need transportation between clients.  Or maybe they work an office job and earn a decent living and can afford a car but the ridiculous cost of housing means they need some sort of below market rental.  Someone with two kids really needs a three bedroom apartment and those are very hard to come by and are quite expensive.

 

We seem to be getting close to 'poor people who need subsidized housing shouldn't have the right to own a car' territory.

[Nparker]

...We seem to be getting close to 'poor people who need subsidized housing shouldn't have the right to own a car' territory.

I imagine that's coming.

[Rex Waverly]

We seem to be getting close to 'poor people who need subsidized housing shouldn't have the right to own a car' territory.

 

I don't think it's about the 'right' to own a car so much as the reality that car ownership is expensive. As a result, car ownership is lower in subsidized housing, so the parking demand is lower. 

 

The number of parking spaces in a subsidized housing development should be less than in a market retail development only because the demand is less, not as a punishment for being in subsidized housing.  Why should extra parking spaces be provided that will be unused?  That's a waste....