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City of Victoria | 2018-2022 | Mayor and council general discussion


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#10341 Mike K.

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 09:12 AM

How much ROI do you get with 5% taxable return on that $5k in tax you deferred? That amount too is trivial. And that tax you’ll eventually pay, it won’t care if the market happened to turn and you sold your home for $1.2M instead of the $1.5 million it was worth three years prior. Markets are not always rising, and we saw what happened in Victoria 2008-2014.

What will be rising are interest rates this decade. We’ve sort of forgotten what it’s like to pay a mortgage at 5%, or 7%, but that’s coming and perhaps far sooner than we might imagine. When I bought my home the bank gave me a 3.8% mortgage, so I’m mentally adjusted to that higher rate, sort of, but still not a 7% mortgage. This fall I blended down but I’m still a lot higher than people who bought this year and last with 1.5% or 2% mortgages. Imagine what a 200% mortgage increase will mean to their pocket book?

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#10342 spanky123

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 09:20 AM

Well if you have a nice place and are in your 70's you may very well have deferred $150K to $200K by now. At a 6% return when you are only paying 0.7% interest that covers a nice vacation.


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#10343 Mike K.

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 09:28 AM

But we're back to hypotheticals once again.

 

Why don't we just say these system scheming seniors get 1000% returns and live on island paradises in the south Pacific with their $200k that they turn into $2 million every year?


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#10344 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 10:03 AM

Where's the off topic stamp?

 

At any rate: anyone else worried about the planned property tax increase in 2023? This year's is moderate, but next year's is a bit steep....


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#10345 Nparker

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 10:14 AM

...anyone else worried about the planned property tax increase in 2023? This year's is moderate, but next year's is a bit steep....

I worry about my CoV property tax increase every year. Several times in the past decade, it has borne little relation to the increase in my assessed property value (i.e. well above assessment increase). The city has to find a way to pay for those poets laureate somehow I guess.



#10346 JohnsonStBridge

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 10:28 AM

The return on a property tax deferral doesn't need to be taxable if you have available TFSA contribution space or put it towards a life insurance policy. A 5% return on $5K in annual cash flow over 2 decades is a $60K return. Maybe Mike thinks that is trivial to his pocketbook but I would take that handout from the government any day.



#10347 Mike K.

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 10:52 AM

The return on a property tax deferral doesn't need to be taxable if you have available TFSA contribution space or put it towards a life insurance policy. A 5% return on $5K in annual cash flow over 2 decades is a $60K return. Maybe Mike thinks that is trivial to his pocketbook but I would take that handout from the government any day.

 

What if you lose 80% of that annual no-tax cash flow because the mutual fund your advisor suggested tanked in year 14 out of your 20-year investment plan, and never recovered by year 20? And now you have to pay the City back the taxes you owe, from money that you don't have that was supposed to net you a $60k tax-free profit? But that's not all. The year you have to move to a retirement home and sell your house, the real-estate market tanks because of a financial crisis, and you sold your home for $300k less than you would have sold it for just one year prior. Now you don't know if you'll afford your seniors home payments beyond six years of residing there. Now what? Can you reach out to the good people in the City of Victoria for some unrealized equity tax reimbursements?

 

See, everything's easy when you're playing with hypotheticals, or finding creative ways to do things with other people's money. Real life is not that easy. The people who are outside of the housing market trying to buy in realize that every day, and they come up with all sorts of scenarios dreaming up how easy it would be if they just owned a home. Those who own a home keep asking themselves where they'll get the money to pay for ever-rising property taxes, maintenance costs, electricity costs, gas costs, insurance costs, rising mortgage rates and all of the special levies tacked on to residential property taxes, while their incomes remain stagnant or rise at a fraction of inflation.

 

The grass is always greener on the other side.


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#10348 FogPub

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 01:52 AM

Not sure a single citation is enough to refute a policy reform. Our Rhodo project in Gonzales took a $3.2m SF property and built 22 townhouses, 2 x $325k, 14 x $850k, 5 x $1.1m, 1 x $1.4m

 

All while providing new warranty housing, underground parking, higher efficiency, in a compact neighbourhood full of amenities and transportation options.

 

This is good urbanism and how our city needs to grow

Buying a property for $3.2m and selling it for a total of about $19m only serves to tell me someone made a lot of money in there somewhere...

 

Well, at least two of the units were vaguely affordable.


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#10349 yellow_baron

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 01:57 PM

The staff report back on the 'reconciliation payments' (assuming that they'd been implemented 20 years ago):

 

Capture.JPG

 

 

https://pub-victoria...ocumentId=74824


Edited by yellow_baron, 09 December 2021 - 01:58 PM.


#10350 Nparker

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 02:03 PM

Why are my tax dollars being wasted by CoV staff creating such a report?



#10351 spanky123

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 02:50 PM

Why are my tax dollars being wasted by CoV staff creating such a report?

 

Because council asked for it!

 

According to the most recent stascan census, the entire Songhees FN has a total of about 150 members of Coast Salish decent.  $200K a person isn't a bad income.

 

https://www12.statca...D=1&RESGEO_ID=1



#10352 Nparker

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 02:53 PM

Because council asked for it!...

Meanwhile, the streets of Victoria have never been in worse shape.



#10353 Moderation

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 04:51 PM

The 2016 census of the Songhees indicates 1840 first nations and 1245 non first nations , From your data site above.



#10354 spanky123

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 06:43 PM

The 2016 census of the Songhees indicates 1840 first nations and 1245 non first nations , From your data site above.

 

Drill down a few rows to aboriginal ancestry. 



#10355 sebberry

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 06:41 PM

I admit it: I get a little thrill when seeing something I wrote being referenced elsewhere – even when the writer disagrees. At least it means they read it!

But there’s no thrill in seeing those references evoked to mean the opposite of what I explicitly intended. That’s not a misinterpretation; that’s a deliberate misreading.

Yes, I’m looking at you, Lisa Helps, Mayor of Victoria.

[...]

https://viewpointvan...y-zoning-in-bc/
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#10356 On the Level

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 12:07 AM

 

But there’s no thrill in seeing those references evoked to mean the opposite of what I explicitly intended.  That’s not a misinterpretation; that’s a deliberate misreading.

 
Yes, I’m looking at you, Lisa Helps, Mayor of Victoria.

 

 

I doubt she reads beyond looking for wokeness to feed her ideology.

 

https://viewpointvan...y-zoning-in-bc/


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#10357 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 08:25 AM

The inability to think critically of fad ideas is astounding. The idea that SFH zoning should be thrown out is a fad idea - borne out of frustration and desperation to find some solution to our affordability and supply problem. Its lazy policy that fails to address the myriad of causes of the affordability problem. She accepts wholesale what the cycling lobby pitches - without pause to consider other lenses. Equally lazy - throwing around terms like racist and misogynist. The idea we should pay rent to FN, equally lazy - we should negotiate fair treaties and provide equal economic opportunities to FN that recognize those communities as partners in our prosperity.  

 

It's all hacks and shortcuts with the current crew at expense of the public.


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#10358 Nparker

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 08:45 AM

Soundbite politics.


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#10359 Mike K.

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 09:21 AM

Quite the uproar over this.

But it’s not just mayor helps, The House Hunt fellow also says it is racist: https://twitter.com/...0189116419?s=21

“Fact: Restrictive zoning has a history steeped in racism.
Undeniable: Today it is extremely exclusionary.

That doesn't make supporters of single family zoning racist, but you do have to ask yourself how hard you want to fight to keep such a system.”

He is viewed as a housing expert (never mind not being able to tell which way the market is going) but people look to him for sound advice. If be believes to be fact what the supposed fact-maker says is not fact, what now? What else is “fact” that isn’t fact? It is clear the individual has political ambitions and he says everything about his work is factual and data driven.
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#10360 Nparker

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 09:23 AM

Well all else fails, play the race card.



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