11779 replies to this topic

[JimV]

^Oh, right.  Like there’s nowhere else where you can buy a pack of smokes.  They carry a unique product line including a lot of non-tobacco products.  They’re leaving for the same reasons as Wilson’s - high rent and high taxes rendered unsustainable by reduced custom due to street crime and traffic throttling.

[Awaiting Juno]

The reroute makes no sense - as a destination, you want to provide a highlight of things to do and see for those who will be visiting, particularly those with a tight "layover" as cruise tourists have. Spreading the tourist dollars around makes sense, but failing to highlight the draws? makes no sense at all. The route matters. As does an understanding of who the tourists are - mostly American, mostly older - cruise tourists aren't the same as backpackers. I suspect there are other motives at work - including a less than enthusiastic appetite for the cruise industry by some on council in addition to a disdain for what Victoria is known for (a quaint and quirky colonial town with deep settler roots). Why highlight Fisherman's Wharf? The Legislature? Market Square and China Town? When instead you can go up Blanshard and hang a left onto view to be unceremoniously dumped outside the Bay Centre?

 

Stephen's proposal was actually a bit of a middle ground - it was an opening of Government to cruise buses (not even transit buses or taxis). It was recognition that there's merit to highlighting that part of town. 

 

I understand a part of the issue is how the bike lanes impact where busses can travel - and even the locals have noticed Wharf has become a bit of a parking lot. What I don't understand: why pedestrianize Government? I mean it vaguely makes sense in a there's loads of foot traffic there, but looking at the shops? The wide boulevards accommodate the foot traffic quite well. It's not like there are restaurants or reasons why people would want to linger really - it's more a move along kind of feel. I also fail to really get the "expand pedestrian spaces" when we have failed to really activate the existing spaces we have to the extent possible. Centennial Square isn't exactly a bumping place (it could be, and arguably should be). 

 

The saddest bit: the failure to engage the businesses that were going to be impacted to develop a plan that would better meet their needs. Further: yet again - seasonal adaptation might make a lot of sense. Pedestrian space May - October - through space November through April. Maybe the DVBA could run a hop on hop off golf cart service for Government St to assist those who aren't so nimble anymore and really can't walk longer distances. 

[Spy Black]

Yes, I’m sure the drastic drop in tobacco use over the past decades had nothing to do with it.

It long ago morphed into somewhat of a "gentlemen's" giftware shop.

Still tobacco products on the shelves for those inclined, but also lots of other "stuff" unrelated to tobacco.

 

When downtown stalwarts like Old Morris start closing down one after the other ... it's all but impossible not to look at what the current Council has done to the downtown core. 

When it's repeated so often, it's tempting to let it go in one ear and out the other ... but the reality is Council has turned Government Street into a nightmare for driving, and not much better than that for walking.

 

In summer, endless daytime traffic jams abound on all the east/west streets abutting lower Government Street, and as a result most locals avoid the entire area for either driving, or shopping (and now they're talking about intentionally removing the tourist traffic ... it's insane!).

 

Wharf Street in the summer time used to be a quick way into James Bay, but has become nothing but an almost permanent daytime parking lot due to the insane decisions made by the current Council with regards to bike lanes, and far too many permanent street closures.

 

Along with its endless encouragement of vagrancy and crime, and obvious complacency towards downtown businesses ... Helps and her current Council have all but doomed any downtown core business related to tourism.

 

Business's designed to service local residents aren't far behind ... if you've been into the Bay Centre lately, you can see what multiple businesses possibly on the cusp of closure look like, empty shelves, zero foot traffic, empty storefronts ... and that includes The Bay itself!

[Nparker]

...What I don't understand: why pedestrianize Government? I mean it vaguely makes sense in a there's loads of foot traffic there, but looking at the shops? The wide boulevards accommodate the foot traffic quite well....

The existing extra wide sidewalks more than adequately accommodate the pedestrians on Government Street and have for decades. They even allow for outdoor dining space. Closing the road to vehicular traffic is just another salvo in our local government's war on cars.

[Spy Black]

As an "old guy", I would put forward that Government Street back in the days of two-way vehicle traffic, and endless glass fronted early 1900's buildings was far more vibrant, and far more interesting than Government Street today.

 

Government Street was, in its day, a major shopping street. Sure it still had tourist shops ... but as an avid young photographer, I'd visit City Photo on a regular basis, as well as frequenting Eatons for clothes shopping, and visiting Goodies for Sunday morning brunch.

 

One has to get by the natural inclination to "remember" things as being far better than they actually were ... because in the specific case of Government Street ... it was vastly better even 20 years ago than it is today ... and going back to the 70's and before, it was Victoria's downtown shopping street (along with the 700 block of Yates) of choice.

[JimV]

I’ve noticed that pedestrians still mostly walk on the sidewalks even though the street is available.  Not sure why, maybe just habit or maybe people prefer the flatter surface of the sidewalks to the crowned roadway.  And of course, if you want to browse the store windows why walk 10 metres from them.  
 

I’m usually down there on Saturday mornings.  On a nice day it’s still pretty lively (a lot more so now with the protests) but most of the time it’s a dead zone - exactly the way a dour socialist paradise should be.

[Nparker]

I am sure you've just missed those lively pedestrian festivals that take place on Government street between October and March each year. 

[mbjj]

I worked in the Eatons china department in the late 1970s. Tons of shoppers used to come in off of Government St. It really was very lively. I remember also as a kid going to lunch with my parents, I think to the Poodle Dog, which changed its name at some point, then went back to the Poodle Dog name. We would park in the old Eatons parkade I think, then walk down Government St. 

[Mike K.]

Can anyone confirm the source, for Old Morris’ closure?

[Mike K.]

Yes, I’m sure the drastic drop in tobacco use over the past decades had nothing to do with it.

It was an amazing spot for buying hard to find and very high quality gifts, too. Lots of niche items that suit the bill for graduation or retirement gifts, etc.

[Spy Black]

Tons of shoppers used to come in off of Government St.

Even up to the late '70's, Government was definitely Victoria's "High Street" in terms of shopping and walking. 

 

Government St has still got some great crossover shops, half tourist, half local ... Old Morris, Out of Ireland, Birks, and the great food and beverage establishments ... but soon to be no more if this current Council manages to continue its weird social engineering exercise of orchestrating the handover of the downtown core to criminals and vagrants (all the while inviting wealthy folks to purchase shiny new condo's that tower over the streets of crime, drugs, and violence below?).

Edited by Spy Black, 13 February 2022 - 06:10 PM.

[Spy Black]

Can anyone confirm the source, for Old Morris’ closure?

A couple of folks at work have seen the sign in their window, although I haven't seen it with my own eyes to date.

 

I think the "buzz" is generally being perpetuated on social media ... reddit et al - https://www.reddit.c...fter_130_years/

[A Girl is No one]

Ive seen the signs. I liked that shop. Great for gifts for Mr. AGINO. Just last Christmas I was there again. A real gift shop for dudes. Got fancy tasting whiskey glasses.

[Mike K.]

Odd. I was there on Thursday night checking out their display, and there was no such sign.

[Harry]

I would think city council is working to have the gift shops and other undesirable shops on government  (in the councils eyes) close up shop and make room for shops of councils approval. The other options are where is the new bus drop off and who does it benefit? Its not like this would be the first time golden hand shakes have been handed out by councilors to people who "tow the party line". I would love to see a spread sheet of the Hiring of staff, the funding handed out, the contracts awarded, where bike lanes etc were placed and how the beneficiaries of said things are connected to councilors. There is so much underhanded crap going on in this city it reads like an HBO special. After hearing a councilor reminding the staff at a local eatery that they get special pricing as agreed upon with the owner among other conversations I have no doubt the you scratch my back and ill scratch yours is alive and well. its almost like kick backs is the regular with a solid rule of silence or you will be silenced coming from the chairs around the table. I would hope with a new council we would not be dealing with more of this crap.

[Nparker]

...After hearing a councilor reminding the staff at a local eatery that they get special pricing as agreed upon with the owner...

Can you offer any specifics?

[Harry]

Can you offer any specifics?

 

It was pre-pandemic. It had to do with the price of a cup coffee and that the councilor had special pricing sorted out with the owner. One of the things this council needs to understand is when out in public you need to be very aware of what you are saying, doing and so on. Sketchy stuff discussed between two people or on the phone at an eatery is not a private conversation.

[kitty surprise]

If I were provided the specifics
(Which councillor)
I would be happy to share that on Twitter

[JimV]

Can anyone confirm the source, for Old Morris’ closure?

The sign was in the window two weeks ago.  Last Saturday it was gone and I went in to see if the closure was still happening.  Sadly, yes.  The reasons are those I mentioned in my above posts.  It has nothing to do with tobacco products.

[Mike K.]

Ah, geez, that's sad. Do we have a time-frame?