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City of Victoria | City Family | Municipal reconciliation efforts


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#61 Mike K.

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:08 PM

The Nation in East Sooke is working together with a developer on Spirit Bay and since that project began I’ve seen quite a few positive changes, namely maintenance and upkeep of properties. The Spirit Bay concept is a product of late developer David Butterfield’s cooperative vision, and by all accounts the man was a visionary.
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#62 spanky123

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:05 PM

 i think it's fair to say a small handful of the 700+ (?) bands do "remarkably" well.

 

local bands here especially the ones right in the core seem to have valuable tracts of land and they have failed (or not wanted to) to develop them like the bands doing remarkably well.

 

Many bands have property that they lease successfully and for big bucks. Who benefits from those leases is probably the bigger issue and what band members should be focusing their efforts on. Some bands share and others don't.



#63 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:09 PM

a few bands have that kind of success you read about the same ones often. but the other 98% don’t.

#64 spanky123

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:13 PM

a few bands have that kind of success you read about the same ones often. but the other 98% don’t.

 

Not necessarily. I know of one band that has hundreds of lots that they lease. One person owns 75% of those lots and isn't too interested in making a big stink about it. 



#65 VIResident

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:18 PM

Canadians works for me.

I am certain I have heard more than once First Nations wish to be equals at government level and a nation unto their own.  This is totally possible and doable. 



#66 spanky123

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:21 PM

I am certain I have heard more than once First Nations wish to be equals at government level and a nation unto their own.  This is totally possible and doable. 

 

So we would have 700+ nations within Canada? Other than being FN, I would argue that the Songhees (as an example) have little in common with the Cree or Mohawk or any other band outside of the South Island.



#67 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:22 PM

well there are 617 bands and 3100 reserves i am now told.

scratch off osoyoos and a couple of bc mainland ones and one or two in oil and gas areas and you have over 600 with no real economy.

#68 RFS

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:22 PM

I am certain I have heard more than once First Nations wish to be equals at government level and a nation unto their own.  This is totally possible and doable. 

I don't think they would actually like the reality of that.  aka no more tax dollars, no more benefits, no more using our services.



#69 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:23 PM

I am certain I have heard more than once First Nations wish to be equals at government level and a nation unto their own. This is totally possible and doable.

.

2/3 of the reserves have under 500 people. hard to run a nation with so few people.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 02 January 2019 - 03:23 PM.


#70 lanforod

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:23 PM

^ that's a good point.



#71 Cassidy

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 05:19 PM

2/3 of the reserves have under 500 people. hard to run a nation with so few people.

Therein lies the problem.

First Nations would have to think and behave as a cohesive unit in order to even have a chance at true self government.

Getting 1.4 million First Nations peoples of Canada to function as a single unit is (IMO) impossible, and it will never happen.

 

Conceptually, a Canadian First Nations band with 200 or 300 members won't ever have the critical mass and infrastructure to truly "self govern". It's simply never going to happen.

The Assembly of First Nations was an example of a good start at bringing the many Canadian bands together ... but that group spends almost 100% of their time fighting internally ... and is ultimately only proof that unity of all Canadian First Nations isn't on the agenda any time soon.

 

All you're really left with in 2019 is hundreds of individual bands equating being gifted tens of millions more dollars with some kind of "self government" or "equality" with the rest of Canada ... when all that will really do is make the Chiefs wealthier than they already are, and compound all existing issues and problems 500 fold. 

 

True reconciliation requires an endless series of incredibly difficult decisions, absolutely no fear of being labeled a "racist" person or government, and most of all the guts to do it - something no post-Indian-Act Canadian government has ever even come close to having.


Edited by Cassidy, 02 January 2019 - 05:20 PM.


#72 VIResident

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 05:46 PM

Therein lies the problem.

First Nations would have to think and behave as a cohesive unit in order to even have a chance at true self government.

Getting 1.4 million First Nations peoples of Canada to function as a single unit is (IMO) impossible, and it will never happen.

 

Conceptually, a Canadian First Nations band with 200 or 300 members won't ever have the critical mass and infrastructure to truly "self govern". It's simply never going to happen.

The Assembly of First Nations was an example of a good start at bringing the many Canadian bands together ... but that group spends almost 100% of their time fighting internally ... and is ultimately only proof that unity of all Canadian First Nations isn't on the agenda any time soon.

 

All you're really left with in 2019 is hundreds of individual bands equating being gifted tens of millions more dollars with some kind of "self government" or "equality" with the rest of Canada ... when all that will really do is make the Chiefs wealthier than they already are, and compound all existing issues and problems 500 fold. 

 

True reconciliation requires an endless series of incredibly difficult decisions, absolutely no fear of being labeled a "racist" person or government, and most of all the guts to do it - something no post-Indian-Act Canadian government has ever even come close to having.

It would be up to them how that self-governance is managed - thats self governance.


Edited by VIResident, 02 January 2019 - 05:48 PM.


#73 Mattjvd

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:30 PM

.

2/3 of the reserves have under 500 people. hard to run a nation with so few people.

This is true, but many reserves are former villiages belonging to the same FN. Many are also arbitrary pieces of land somewhere near a former village. Groups of 5, 10, 20 or so reserves of the same FN do regularly work together on policy. Locally the Nuu-Chah-Nulth Tribal Council represents 15 west coast Vancouver Island tribes who were once more like 15 different villages in a nation.

Edited by Mattjvd, 02 January 2019 - 06:30 PM.

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#74 rjag

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:20 PM

What needsto be sorted first and foremost is the role each level of government will play in any talks. What can a Municipality do? ie, can they cede land or money or what?

 

Its not like CoV can negotiate a Land Claim, so what can they do?



#75 spanky123

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:28 PM

What needsto be sorted first and foremost is the role each level of government will play in any talks. What can a Municipality do? ie, can they cede land or money or what?

 

Its not like CoV can negotiate a Land Claim, so what can they do?

 

I guess that the CoV could start transferring title on property it owns if it wants to do so.


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#76 Nparker

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 09:12 PM

I guess that the CoV could start transferring title on property it owns if it wants to do so.

Would that mean all the future "affordable" housing the CoV intends to build will then be owned by First Nations?



#77 Cassidy

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:38 PM

It would be up to them how that self-governance is managed - thats self governance.


No, it’s not self governance if it’s my tax dollars paying for it all ... that’s called the Indian Act - which we’ve already got, and which hasn’t ever worked.

#78 rmpeers

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:52 AM

The big picture is something that is mostly down to the federal and provincial governments to work on with First Nations.

I'm sure there are things that can be done at the local government level; however, based on the statue debacle, I'd say Victoria's current civic government doesn't possess the skill to do much of anything.

Having had some experience working in the world of reconciliation, I cannot ever remember hearing anyone suggest, as the mayor did, that the process should be unsettling. From my experience, you want to aim for the exact opposite. Unsettling is not a positive. It may be a consequence in some cases - and indeed the mayor/Isitt may see making the "settlers" feel uncomfortable as a super cool thing. But no sane person who was sincere in wanting reconciliation would suggest that.

Of course, the only reason the mayor suggested that its good to be unsettled is to try to excuse her statue-removal campaign stunt, which didn't appear to further the cause of reconciliation at all but did achieve the goal of getting her some publicity.
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#79 Rob Randall

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:04 AM

Yes, the Feds and Province will be driving much of this process.

 

My main area of interest is how it pertains to City Hall and Victoria, that's why I bring up the hypotheticals of:

 

  • Commercial activity in Beacon Hill Park
  • BC Hydro lands in Rock Bay, maybe a River Rock Casino-style of entertainment/conference complex
  • Some sort of Inner Harbour presence, again commercial/art/food/culture

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#80 Mike K.

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:06 AM

Ah, and therein is the rub.

Helps et al are fiercely opposed to a casino after learning that money was being laundered in casinos on the mainland. So what then if the First Nations want a casino on the Rock Bay site? Or is that Helps plan all along, to keep the license out of the downtown core until such a time as Rock Bay is ready to be developed?


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