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APPROVED
Hyatt Centric Victoria Hotel
Uses: hotel, commercial
Address: 1314-1324 Broad Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 6
The Hyatt Centric Victoria Hotel development is a proposal to build a six-storey, 135-room hotel with ground f... (view full profile)
Learn more about Hyatt Centric Victoria Hotel on Citified.ca
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[Downtown Victoria] Hyatt Centric Victoria Hotel | Hotel; retail | 6-storeys


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#61 Nparker

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 06:45 PM

...People have been lead to believe the Duck’s will be destroyed...

Then I guess the TC and its stellar reporting has done its job.



#62 Rob Randall

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 07:07 PM

Facadism is a legitimate concern. There's more to a heritage building than the six-inch skin on the front.


“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#63 aastra

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 07:07 PM

The funny thing is, if you were to propose doing full restorations of modernized & defaced old buildings like the one on the Johnson Street side of the Duck's Building, I can guarantee you that many of the people in that discussion wouldn't be enthusiastic about it. Many of them would be outright opposed. Not worth it, the building isn't special enough to justify the effort (lest we forget the Janion controversy and the heaps of "not worth it" commentary), it wouldn't help the housing crisis, it wouldn't be authentic, it would contribute to gentrification, etc.

 

This is what I find so frustrating about many Victorians when it comes to heritage preservation. The Victoria that they love is the post-1945 modernized & defaced city. They want to preserve it where they can, and enable it to rot away gracelessly where they can't. But they don't seem to be at all interested in preserving or restoring the glorious pre-1945 city. And yet they gush when they go to San Francisco or Europe or anywhere else and see formerly defaced and decrepit buildings that were given the full restoration treatment.

 

I would grant Chard ten extra stories on their next highrise in a heartbeat if they would do a full and faithful ($$$) high-quality recreation of the lost exterior of the Johnson Street building and a half-decent preservation of the guts of the Duck's Building.


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#64 Nparker

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 07:36 PM

...I would grant Chard ten extra stories on their next highrise in a heartbeat if they would do a full and faithful ($$$) high-quality recreation of the lost exterior of the Johnson Street building and a half-decent preservation of the guts of the Duck's Building.

Would you grant Chard a 10-storey structure on the current vacant lot south of the Duck's building to make up for the reduced density and additional costs of the restoration as you propose? Or should the developer lose money on this project in the hopes that it can be made up on some future project elsewhere?



#65 aastra

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 07:48 PM

I don't think I'd want 10-stories on that particular lot but I wouldn't mind maybe 7 or 8 stories if it was done really well. The mutually beneficial arrangements that I'm talking about would tend to involve otherwise unconnected properties. You do this good thing for the city in one place and the city will do this good thing for you in another place.

 

But aastra! Those sorts of deals would encourage the preservation and restoration of old buildings! Those sorts of deals would encourage new density in other areas of downtown that really need it!

 

This is what I'm getting at. I'd love to see some innovative way of driving both of those things.


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#66 aastra

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 07:56 PM

I'm suggesting the endless controversies whereby old buildings are always being threatened one way or another could possibly be avoided by binding the preservation of old buildings to redevelopment opportunities in other areas.

 

I'm the idea man. You folks can work out the particulars.



#67 aastra

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 08:14 PM

 

Facadism is a legitimate concern.

 

This significant job would also be following immediately in the footsteps of the Customs House project. That's not a trend that you want to (re)gain momentum. And just when things finally seemed to be going in a good direction re: projects like the New England Hotel or the Janion. Do we want to revert back to the attitude of the Eaton's Centre days? I hope not.

 

I don't know if I've ever met an "ism" that I really liked, but I also don't have a problem with preserving a facade here and there where the justification seems to be credible. HOWEVER... I sure wouldn't want many/most buildings to be doing it. We've talked about granularity and texture many times. Methinks granularity and irregularity re: the rooflines, back sides, and overall footprints of buildings is only slightly less relevant than granularity re: the front face. When stuff becomes too obviously modern, squared, and regular then it can start sucking the city's funky old urban soul away (no offense, Eaton's Centre).

 

SkyScope-Victoria_BC.jpg

 

(Which is all the more reason to be encouraging rather than opposing additional levels set back atop old buildings, because of how such levels tend to uniquely relate to the footprint of the individual building beneath. I'd say additional levels are much more of a continuation of the city's natural evolution as compared to facadism projects, which tend to replace many smaller pieces of the urban puzzle with one big piece that looks like many smaller pieces but actually isn't. But I digress...)


Edited by aastra, 25 August 2021 - 01:31 PM.

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#68 aastra

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 08:34 PM

Here's the equivalent of the Bay Centre in Indianapolis...

 

Aerial view which puts an exclamation mark on the point re: one big piece masquerading as several smaller pieces...

 

(No, I'm not suggesting that Chard's Duck's Building project is another Bay Centre. It's obviously just a fraction of the size. But it's the same effect, if on a much smaller scale.)


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#69 Rob Randall

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 09:51 PM

Very well put, thanks.

 

Here's more on facadism in London:

 

https://www.bbc.com/...ctures-50396337


“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#70 Mike K.

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 10:43 PM

I leased an office on the top floor of the Duck’s. It is not a building conducive to modern uses or expectations, and if I’d have to peg the interior I’d have to assume it was a 40s or 50s modernization.

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#71 Rob Randall

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 07:25 AM

Yes, the inside is crazy. one of the offices is an old and huge sport court--hardwood floors with painted lines. Badminton or volleyball maybe.


“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#72 aastra

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 09:31 AM

 

I leased an office on the top floor of the Duck’s. It is not a building conducive to modern uses or expectations, and if I’d have to peg the interior I’d have to assume it was a 40s or 50s modernization.

 

And you're always going to have those issues re: stairways and access and modern codes and standards re: seismic, fire, electrical, tech, etc. That's why I put on my weasel cap and said "a half-decent preservation of the guts of the building". I leave it to VV's braintrust to determine what "half-decent" means. (Remember: this board wields massive influence.)



#73 Mike K.

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 09:34 AM

The Janion was able to accomplish that with the preservation of the staircase, which was worth preserving. Some interiors are just ...blah, after that's been done to them over a 130-year span. If possible, I agree, preserve/restore an element(s) of the interior worth the effort.


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#74 aastra

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 09:45 AM

Did we ever see an image of the back side of this project?



#75 Jackerbie

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 10:39 AM

Did we ever see an image of the back side of this project?

 

Capture.PNG

 

Complete drawing set is here: https://tender.victo...611095134710809


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#76 G-Man

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 07:58 PM

I am actually in the midst of writing a blog post on facadism and why I am okay with it and I think the Duck building is a great example. I mean the inside is not the Duck building of the 1800's so what are why trying to save? The old nightclub? I think a faithful saving of the ground floor and facade is fine here. Heritage preservation should be just that, preservation. We don't need fake imitations of what used to be. We have that in spades two blocks from here.
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Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#77 G-Man

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 09:29 PM

Just finished the post and Duck's gets a mention.

https://www.sidewalk...acadism-i-think

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#78 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 07:12 AM

Coun. Jeremy Loveday said he wants to hear directly from a representative of the heritage advisory panel that signed off on the development.

 

He also wants to know how the developer intends to respond to the loss of eight rental units if the project goes ahead. Possible options include making a contribution to the city’s housing reserve fund or replacing the units within the proposed hotel or, more likely, another project.

 

“For me, sending an application to public hearing without knowing the response on the affordable-housing piece in the context of a housing crisis is something that I have a lot of trouble doing,” Loveday said.

 

The two buildings — the 127-year-old Duck’s Building and the adjacent Duck’s Carriage Factory, also known as the Canada Hotel — are among the properties bequeathed to the University of Victoria by the late Michael Williams, a businessman and developer, and the man behind Swans Hotel and Brew Pub.

 

 

https://www.timescol...tton-1.24023474


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 30 November 2019 - 07:12 AM.


#79 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 07:20 AM

Mayor Lisa Helps opposed sending the matter back to committee of the whole, arguing that, after four years and multiple revisions, it was time to hear from the public.

 

“It’s an opportunity for all of us to learn more by sending it forward,” Helps said.

 

Councillors Geoff Young, Marianne Alto and Charlayne Thornton-Joe agreed.

 

But Loveday, Ben Isitt, Sharmarke Dubow and Sarah Potts all expressed reservations.

 

“I absolutely support a hotel here, but I am concerned about what this proposal means for the integrity of Old Town and really concerned about voting in favour of the first demolition of a heritage-registry building in Old Town since the ’80s,” Potts said.

 

Isitt, meanwhile, objected to claims that the development will preserve the buildings.

 


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 30 November 2019 - 07:20 AM.


#80 RFS

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 11:28 AM

Split right down the aisle
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