26251 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Actually, this next bit is very important and I’ll note it here for those who won’t read the full Vox piece.

The author makes a crucial point by saying that the media, yes, like those climate change reporters who somehow end up covering issues pertaining to the CDC’s COVID testing data, helped fuel the Lancet’s junk science.

We journalists are still doing this today on myriad health topics. We report on single, often poorly designed studies — even if they don’t deserve an ounce of attention. We also focus a lot more on the anti-vaccine movement and their concerns than on the astounding progress made against vaccine-preventable diseases.

Part of this has to do with how newsrooms work: Reporters favor anomalies and novelty instead of slow and plodding progress, as Steven Pinker points out in his recent book, Enlightenment Now. But in doing so, we lose sight of the big picture.

It’s rare to actually see this level of honesty from a journalist.

[m3m]

Mike, the Lancet is just a medical journal. It’s not “their study” and it’s not their “junk science”. You’re continually conflating the two. The junk science remains that of researches who undertook the fraudulent study. Medical journals for the most part just publish the results of peer reviewed scientific studies and research. They are not journalists.

[spanky123]

I’d like to see someone in officialdom lay out the three of four reasons we are expecting a “second wave”. i’m more than willing to admit it’s probably coming.

but if it is then state the reasons and let’s see if we can behave in the opposite fashion now.

for example: if one reason for the second wave is colder weather and people staying indoors more, then today’s “stay home” message seems counterintuitive.

 

Lots of reasons why we will get a second wave. They are similar to why the flu comes back every fall.

 

1. People stay indoors so more opportunity to infect others

2. Germs transmitters (ie kids) are back in school and expand contacts

3. Less daylight so people generate less vitamin D which is a major factor in protection against Covid-19 and other viruses

4. Air is colder and less humid which the virus prefers

5. People are less active and our immune systems are effective

[spanky123]

Of course it is going to get messy.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/n...eekly-1.5581689

 

So much money is at stake that bio-tech companies and Governments will start sabotaging competitor trials and forcing participants to play by their rules.

[Victoria Watcher]

that’s the way it should be. if there are 98 losers and 2 winners that’s perfect. that’s like startups and movie financing. it’s perfect capitalism.

[spanky123]

that’s the way it should be. if there are 98 losers and 2 winners that’s perfect. that’s like startups and movie financing. it’s perfect capitalism.

 

It should be a competitive process. What you don't want though is a successful vaccine being sabotaged by a country / competitor to allow them more time to get a competing/inferior product to market.

[Victoria Watcher]

Las Vegas casinos to disinfect dice and install heat cameras to scan body temperature as city looks to June 4 reopening

 

 

https://www.thesun.c...ce-coronavirus/

[Victoria Watcher]

Ontario premier makes public plea to 'go get tested' after province misses target 7th straight day

https://www.cbc.ca/n...ay-24-1.5582369

 

Ontario Premier Doug Ford announced that asymptomatic people can get tested for COVID-19 on Sunday, as cases continued to mount in the province and officials criticized thousands of people crowding in a Toronto park.

 

The premier said mass testing is the province’s best defence against the virus, and added the only way for the province to reach testing capacity is for people to go to provincial assessment centres.

 

“If you are worried you have COVID-19, or that you’ve been exposed to someone who has COVID-19, even if you’re not showing symptoms, please go get a test,” Ford said during a televised speech on Sunday.

 

“You will not be turned away, you don’t need an appointment, just show up.”

 

https://globalnews.c...nyone-covid-19/

 

 

 

so ontario is banking on extreme testing.  they have not set any date for opening restaurants or pubs yet.  

 

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 May 2020 - 03:01 PM.

[todd]

Las Vegas casinos to disinfect dice and install heat cameras to scan body temperature as city looks to June 4 reopening

 

 

https://www.thesun.c...ce-coronavirus/

Somebody hinting they want to see some more of my vacation photos:

 

[Spy Black]

Interesting tidbit highlighting my Las Vegas historical OCD (and to leave COVID for a second or two) about the photo in above post - that small curved building that the Ceasars Palace sign is on is the original hotel.

It's the only part of the original property that remains.

Back in the day, there were screens across all the old balconies, with the entire facade backlit in an amazing turquoise colour (some here in the forum seem to be the right age to remember that turquoise lighting?).

In 2015, they renovated the original building, deciding not to tear it down, but rather to keep it as a touchstone to the past.

 

I always try to stay at Ceasars when I'm in Las Vegas, and I ask for a room in the original tower.

By the time I first stayed there in 1974, expansion had already begun, first with an add on to the original that turned it into an "S" (the "top" of the "S" is still there today), as well as a short tower just in front of the original building (that's still there too), and a larger tower off to the side (which is also still there).

Later came the massive towers, and the complete tear down and rebuild of the casino out front, as well as all the development of the mall, nightclub, and showroom.

Attached Images

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Edited by Spy Black, 24 May 2020 - 04:26 PM.

[Mike K.]

Mike, the Lancet is just a medical journal. It’s not “their study” and it’s not their “junk science”. You’re continually conflating the two. The junk science remains that of researches who undertook the fraudulent study. Medical journals for the most part just publish the results of peer reviewed scientific studies and research. They are not journalists.

That’s fundamentally implied, isn’t it?

Their publication’s published story = their publication’s published study. But a study is not a story, so we agree to call it a study, but it’s a “story” they chose to publish, and they take responsibility for publishing it in their journal and copyrighting the content.

I didn’t think we needed to describe how a medical journal works.

[Victoria Watcher]

only 15 us states had double-digit deaths today.  canada had 70 today.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 May 2020 - 05:24 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

On Government Street, a trickle of people strolled by recently reopened shops and restaurants. It was an unusual sight for Rene Gauthier, who owns Ecologyst clothing store on the street.

 

Normally, the sidewalk would be packed with pedestrians at this time of year, Gauthier said.

 

He reopened last week and said people are slow to return. On Sunday, one or two customers visited the store per hour.

 

“If we’d had days like this before the COVID, I’d be really freaking out,” he said.

 

There’s hand sanitizer at the front of the store and arrows on the ground tell customers how to move around safely. Any item tried on is steamed and left for a few days before returning to the rack.

 

“It’s way more work and way less people. This is totally unsustainable,” he said.

 

Gauthier said some people seem hesitant to come inside, while others are excited to shop again.

 

He wore a mask when he first reopened, but he was concerned that it appeared unsettling for shoppers.

“I was getting the vibe that people were worried that I was worried about catching something from them,” he said.

 

https://www.timescol...town-1.24140484

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 25 May 2020 - 02:25 AM.

[mbjj]

If and when I get back to entering shops, a mask on a clerk wouldn't bother me in the least. I'll probably be wearing one as well.

[amor de cosmos]

A new study by researchers from McGill University and the University of Toronto finds a cross-partisan consensus on battling COVID-19 in Canada. Unlike in the U.S., this consensus is fostering broad agreement on the threats posed by the pandemic and the actions necessary to contain it – all of which is crucial to efforts to fight the virus.

“We know that public opinion tends to become polarized on highly salient issues, except when political leaders are in consensus. In the United States, there appears to be political and public polarization on the severity of the pandemic,” says co-authorAengus Bridgman, a PhD Candidate in Political Science at McGill University under the supervision of Dietlind Stolle. “Other evidence suggests that polarization is undermining compliance with social distancing.”

In a study for the Canadian Journal of Political Science, the researchers evaluate Canadians’ response to COVID-19 by analyzing data from the social media accounts of federal Members of Parliament (MPs), Google search trends, and public opinion surveys.

https://www.alphagal...y/ItemId/192992

Approximately 40 lineages of the SARS-CoV-2 virus have been recorded circulating in the UK, some of which have already gone extinct while others thrive. Previously, the different lineages of the single strain of the virus entered the UK through multiple importations from around the globe, including European countries such as Spain, Italy and France.

Now, fewer international lineages remain in the UK and new cases of COVID-19 arise from local spread rather than importation from other countries. The data reports§, published by the COVID-19 Genomics UK Consortium (COG-UK), show the value in mapping COVID-19 lineages across the UK to understand how the virus is spreading at national, regional and local levels.

As of 22 May, more than 20,000 viral genomes from positive COVID-19 tests have been sequenced in the UK, which is the largest number of COVID-19 genomes sequenced by any single country affected by the pandemic.

https://medicalxpres...eals-large.html

Anatomy of a man-made disaster: 320 ways Donald Trump failed to protect us from the coronavirus
(long)
https://www.rawstory...he-coronavirus/

Tyson — one of the nation’s largest producers and marketers of chicken, beef, and pork — said on Wednesday that 570 of the 2,244 employees at its Wilkesboro, North Carolina complex have contracted confirmed cases of COVID-19, the virus that has killed nearly 96,370 Americans nationwide so far.

https://www.rawstory...uring-epidemic/

they're doing great, just look at those numbers! what if they tested even less?

Cemeteries in Aden are overflowing with graves, suggesting that the number of people killed by the new coronavirus is higher than the official count.

To date, officials in the war-ravaged country have reported 222 confirmed infections and 42 related deaths.

But the real numbers are hard to establish due to the country's extremely limited testing capacity. According to data compiled by the International Rescue Committee, Yemen has one of the world's lowest testing rates, even compared with other conflict-hit countries, at just 31 tests per one million citizens.

In a statement on May 14, Save the Children said nearly 400 people in Aden were reported to have died of coronavirus-like symptoms in just one week. The international charity warned that several hospitals in the city had shut down and medical staff were refusing to go to work for lack of proper personal protective equipment (PPE).

"Our teams on the ground are seeing how people are being sent away from hospitals, breathing heavily or even collapsing. People are dying because they can't get treatment that would normally save their lives," said Mohammed Alshamaa, Save the Children's director of programmes in Yemen.

"There are patients who go from hospital to hospital and yet cannot get admitted. We're hearing of families who have lost two or three loved ones in the past few weeks."

https://www.aljazeer...5064212684.html

After host Chuck Todd showed video clips from this year where Trump completely contradicts his current blame China stance, voicing his approval of China President Xi Jinping’s handling of the virus, Todd pointed out that as late as March 14 the president said that the virus “was no one’s fault.” In response, O’Brien didn’t just defend Trump, he heaped over-the-top praise on the president for moving ahead with a limited travel ban.

After host Chuck Todd showed video clips from this year where Trump completely contradicts his current blame China stance, voicing his approval of China President Xi Jinping’s handling of the virus, Todd pointed out that as late as March 14 the president said that the virus “was no one’s fault.” In response, O’Brien didn’t just defend Trump, he heaped over-the-top praise on the president for moving ahead with a limited travel ban.

“It was a profile in courage. And it was something that he was criticized for by his political opponents and by many in the media,” O’Brien continued. “That saved countless lives. I think that’s the thing that we have to focus on with China.”

https://www.rollings...-trump-1004720/

[Ismo07]

Let me give a massively oversimplified example (all data made up to simplistically represent scenario)

 

100 people have malaria

10 people would die from malaria if untreated

There is a drug to treat malaria

With the drug 9 of those 10 will survive

Two people will die from the drug itself

 

Untreated = 10 die

Treated = 3 die (one from malaria, two from drug)

 

In this scenario, it makes sense to take the drug for malaria, as it saves 7 lives.

 

100 people have COVID-19

10 people will die from COVID-19 if untreated

The drug does not help COVID-19 patients

With the drug 10 out of 10 still die from COVID-19

Two people will die from the drug itself

 

Untreated = 10 die

Treated = 12 die (ten from COVID-19, two from drug)

 

Hey Greg,

 

I realize you are making this simple but you aren't suggesting that 2 in 100 people die from Hydro?  I think most of us get math, the hope people have is that it might slow down the virus and the side effects are generally mild or non-existant.  I've been frustrated how this has really been used as a red herring.  Trump had no other reason to say that he is taking it.   Here is the latest summary I can find on it.  Still not enough to say it doesn't inhibit the virus if used as a preventable measure, but I still kind of doubt it.  https://www.goodrx.c...id19-treatment/

 

 

[Greg]

I explicitly stated that they were not real numbers, but for illustrative purposes. But we know for a fact that the side effects are not "generally mild or non-existent", that is counterfactual, and kind of the point. And if you think most people get math, you've not been reading the same forum I have.

[spanky123]

 

On Government Street, a trickle of people strolled by recently reopened shops and restaurants. It was an unusual sight for Rene Gauthier, who owns Ecologyst clothing store on the street.

 

Normally, the sidewalk would be packed with pedestrians at this time of year, Gauthier said.

 

He reopened last week and said people are slow to return. On Sunday, one or two customers visited the store per hour.

 

“If we’d had days like this before the COVID, I’d be really freaking out,” he said.

 

There’s hand sanitizer at the front of the store and arrows on the ground tell customers how to move around safely. Any item tried on is steamed and left for a few days before returning to the rack.

 

“It’s way more work and way less people. This is totally unsustainable,” he said.

 

Gauthier said some people seem hesitant to come inside, while others are excited to shop again.

 

He wore a mask when he first reopened, but he was concerned that it appeared unsettling for shoppers.

“I was getting the vibe that people were worried that I was worried about catching something from them,” he said.

 

 

The TC is trying to put a happy face on this but the reality is that most people are not in a rush to return to 'normal'. I called around to pubs yesterday afternoon expecting to be told that they were full and/or had a line-up only to find that most had lots of room. Sidewalk shopping and outdoor patios aren't going to save businesses if they can't get customers to spend money.

[GetLisaSomeHelps]

My parents are in their 60s and the general sentiment of their social circle is waiting a few weeks from these businesses re-opening to see if there's an uptick in community spread.

[spanky123]

My parents are in their 60s and the general sentiment of their social circle is waiting a few weeks from these businesses re-opening to see if there's an uptick in community spread.

 

It is hard to get motivated to go out when you keep being told that doing so puts your life at risk.