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PROPOSED
Pacific Maritime Centre
Uses: office, civic
Address: 790 McCallum Road
Municipality: Langford
Region: West Shore
Storeys: 9
The Pacific Maritime Centre is a mixed-use development incorporating an office component, a performing arts sp... (view full profile)
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[Langford] Pacific Maritime Centre | Maritime Museum of BC; office; commercial | Proposed


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#61 Spy Black

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 06:39 PM

It won't go ahead, because very early in the process the Langford principals driving the dream will be told by somebody who is actually a theatre consultant supported by a professional Cost Consultant - that Langford doesn't have anywhere near enough money to complete what it is that they're proposing to build.

 

This won't be the first time that residents in the CRD have been fooled by $400.00 worth of architects watercolours, each depicting a new theatre, construction of which is going to start "very soon now".

At least in the previous instances (the theatre on the Inner Harbour, or the one out in a farmers field that's attached to the school in Central Saanich - for example), the watercolours were very well done (these ones are brutal, and look like a scene from The Jetsons). In the case of the Inner Harbour theatre, the watercolours were so well done that the CRD had them up on their website for a couple of years before they realized that the entire thing was nothing more than a sad pipe dream, eventually (and quietly) taking all references to the "amazing new" Inner Harbour theatre down - never to be heard from again.

 

Pro Tip: paying an architect a few hundred dollars to generate some nice watercolours that wind up on the front page of the TC doesn't automatically translate into a new theatre in your neighbourhood. In fact, they're really nothing more than $400.00 worth of watercolours accompanied an empty construction account at the local bank, one hoping to be filled up by the Feds, the Province, and the CRD. 

Do it right Langford - or don't even bother trying.


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#62 LeoVictoria

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:17 PM

I like it.  Will Mayor Young slide down the tower into an Alpine Garbage Truck?

 

AEB11655-0454-4D14-BE58-E95FFFF399E3.jpeg

 

We’re here for a ruff ruff rescue!


Edited by LeoVictoria, 26 February 2020 - 08:17 PM.

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#63 lanforod

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 10:30 AM

I'm tempted to concentrate on what a terrible concept and idea this actually is, but instead I'll just say:

You_can't_build_ a_ 1200_ seat_legitimate_ theatre_in_2020_for_$30 million_dollars.

 

The theatre alone will cost three to four times as much as that, and it won't be anything particularly special even at $120 million.

If they try to bring this to fruition as announced, they will fail.

It will be a room with 1200 uncomfortable plastic seats, and a tribute act once every six months. The rest of the time it will serve as some sort of arena/special-event space for dog shows and the like.

 

But I will say that if Langford dropped the office tower and museum, and put $100 million towards building a proper theatre - Langford is the one municipality that might be able to pull it off. God knows we'll never see a new theatre in the CRD otherwise.

But they won't do that, and this will either never make it past the (terrible in this case) watercolour stage, or wind up getting built and becoming the home of the Annual South Island Livestock Auction.

 

Theatre shenanigans aside, I agree with those above positing whether there is a worse possible fit than the Maritime Museum and Langford?

 

Do you have some examples where a 1000+ seat theatre costs as much as you're saying?



#64 aastra

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 10:37 AM

5 things to know about the new $23 million (USD) center for the arts at Queens University in Charlotte



#65 aastra

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 10:51 AM

Port Angeles 500-seat theater project = $34 million (USD)

 

 

The $34 million waterfront center will include a 500-seat performance hall...

from https://www.peninsuladailynews.com



#66 aastra

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 11:02 AM

Lawrenceville, Georgia 500-seat theater project = $31 million (USD)

 

Obviously these sorts of projects can range widely, but it seems like ~$30 million US is pretty typical for centers anchored by a 500-seat venue. That Queens University project seems like a bargain but I'm not sure how much of it was new construction as versus renovation.



#67 lanforod

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 11:04 AM

^ great. Given that this is a shared building, some costs will be saved that way. 30 mill CAD doesn't seem crazy out of place.



#68 aastra

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 11:11 AM

I'd say Spy Black is right, the price tag seems too low for a 1,200-seat theatre. $30 million is the number they stated for the theatre only, right?

 

Edit: here's the quote from the Vancouver Sun article:

 

 

The museum would be part of a complex that includes a 1,200-seat performing arts theatre, conference centre and office tower.

Langford Mayor Stew Young said the municipality will provide the land and services and pay for the $30-million theatre through fundraising and amenity fees charged to developers


Edited by aastra, 27 February 2020 - 11:13 AM.


#69 Benezet

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 01:26 PM

Do you have some examples where a 1000+ seat theatre costs as much as you're saying?


How about >300 million for the original design for the opera house in Toronto? Eventually they beat it down to around 180 million (as the Four Seasons).

https://en.m.wikiped..._Seasons_Centre

My two cents: Langford should identify just what they think this theatre might be used for, before they go much further.
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#70 Rob Randall

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 01:36 PM

My two cents: Langford should identify just what they think this theatre might be used for, before they go much further.

 

Remember all the hoopla surrounding the plan for a fancy performing arts centre on the Inner Harbour. Until someone actually interviewed local arts organizers who said no possible way could we afford to stage a production at a place like that. That plan fizzled fast.


“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#71 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 02:14 PM

we have a downtown theatre that sits empty lots.  we have a some type of venue at the casino that has never drawn anyone since tom cochrane opened it.



#72 Rob Randall

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 02:37 PM

The only listing they have now is a Bee Gees tribute show in April. For 2019 I found a Morgan James show and 2018 a Roy Orbison tribute by searching Google. That's it.

 

Is it really that unpopular a venue?


“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#73 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 02:52 PM

some reports say it's just removable chairs set out in a room with no slope.  which in fairness is a bit like the arena floor.  


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 February 2020 - 02:52 PM.


#74 Benezet

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 03:10 PM

some reports say it's just removable chairs set out in a room with no slope. which in fairness is a bit like the arena floor.


Photos and info here:

https://elementscasi...eetings-events/

#75 Rob Randall

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 05:02 PM

^OK, so more like the event centre on Fisgard. Just a big multipurpose room for banquets etc. Unlike the River Rock which is a dedicated, permanent slope seat theatre I believe


“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#76 Spy Black

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 05:30 PM

The theatres aastra linked to are somewhat smaller than 1200 seats - most are 500 seats.

Too, US$30 million for a 500 seat theatre is about CAD$40 million. 

 

It's obviously too simple to take as anything that could be called accurate, - but costing up from 500 seats at CAD$40 million to 1200 seats results in approximately CAD$120 million.

Back to my point though, which is $30 million is about 1/4 to 1/3 of what you actually need to build a 1200 seat legitimate theatre in 2020.


Edited by Spy Black, 27 February 2020 - 05:31 PM.


#77 Rob Randall

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 07:12 PM

If you're talking "legitimate" theatre then you're talking green room, cast dressing rooms and washrooms, props storage, full lighting grid, professional acoustical treatment, a raked floor, concession stand and liquor bar...etc.


“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#78 Benezet

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 08:07 PM

If you're talking "legitimate" theatre then you're talking green room, cast dressing rooms and washrooms, props storage, full lighting grid, professional acoustical treatment, a raked floor, concession stand and liquor bar...etc.


Exactly. No doubt you would need all that and a whole lot more for putting on full-blown plays, musicals, etc.... And you would need skilled people, too.

#79 Spy Black

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 08:20 PM

All true. 

Without the facilities and equipment Rob noted, there's really no point in building a 1200 seat venue in the first place.

Without all of the facilities and equipment, you're really just building a 1200 seat arena.

 

As well, this kind of facility can't just be staffed with volunteers, the kinds of shows that tour into 1200 seat venues require professional stagehands, audio engineers, lighting designers, riggers, etc.

Big shows can often require 40 or 50 experienced stagehands.

 

At 1200 seats, you really don't have a choice about building a "legitimate theatre", as that size venue is by design exactly that ... a legitimate theatre complex.

Nobody on earth wants or needs a 1200 seat arena.


Edited by Spy Black, 27 February 2020 - 08:21 PM.


#80 Mike K.

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 08:21 PM

Press release from the museum:

 

MARITIME MUSEUM OF BC MOVES FORWARD WITH NEXT

PHASE OF THE PACIFIC MARITIME CENTRE

 

On February 25, 2020, the City of Langford and the Maritime Museum of BC entered into a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) for the proposed construction of the Pacific Maritime Centre (PMC) that includes a new state-of-the-art Maritime Museum, office tower and conference centre that will be located at 790 McCallum Road.

 

The Maritime Museum of British Columbia is pleased to announce that Coldwell Banker Commercial Oceanside Real Estate has been hired to represent the Museum's interests in identifying tenants for the office tower within the PMC. The proposed leasing project consists of up to 90,000 sq. ft. of AAA office space that will consist of six 15,000 sq. ft. floor plates. The building is expected to provide a state-of-the-art air handling system, free onsite parking, and onsite daycare services.

 

The Mayor of Langford, Stew Young, stated that, "this project will create several new iconic attractions for the City and region, aligns with Council’s commitment to enhance arts and cultural opportunities in Langford, and supports Council’s vision to create more commercial office space so residents don’t have to commute outside the City for work. We are really excited about this project and look forward to moving forward with next steps.”

The overall project is on its way to becoming 'shovel-ready' and is expected to generate hundreds of short-term construction jobs and several new full and part-time jobs in the community. The proposed 80,000 sq. ft. Maritime Museum will house the entire artefact collection as well as a state-of-the-art immersive planetarium theatre and observational lighthouse designed sky-deck.

 

John Clarkson, Chairperson of the Maritime Museum of BC stated that, "this is a major step forward for the overall project. The Museum is looking for long-term lessees’ such as federal and provincial departments, crown corporations, educational institutions, NGO's or private professional corporations. The commercial realtor company is responsible for serving as the intermediary between the MMBC and perspective tenants."

 

Chris Troke and John Morris, from Coldwell Banker Commercial Oceanside Real Estate, are honoured to be involved in helping the Maritime Museum of BC complete their vision and look forward to working with them on this ambitious project. In the coming weeks, they will be looking for expressions of interest from government, NGO's and the business community regarding leasing opportunities. Interested parties are encouraged to reach out for more information.

 

David Leverton, Executive Director of the Maritime Museum of BC highlighted that, "the office tower is a strategically important part of the overall Pacific Maritime Centre project, as it will enable the project to be more financially sustainable and independent.”


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