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City of Victoria 2022 - 2026 Council - Discussion


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#1441 Daveyboy

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Posted 10 December 2024 - 09:28 AM

We took our grandchildren  to a Christmas choir concert at the Victoria Conservatory of Music on Saturday.  Due to its location and lack of close parking, we had to walk a few blocks in the Pandora area.  Of course there were the usual sad cases and drugged out victims along the sidewalks.  The kids said later that they were scared and said they "don't want to go downtown anymore".



#1442 spanky123

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Posted 10 December 2024 - 10:29 AM

"Hard choices" in budget 2025? Budget 2024's operating budget was 27 percent larger than 2020's operating budget. Could our council please focus on the easy choice of prioritizing core services and looking for more efficient ways of delivering those services? Given the previous council also wasn't known for being spendthrifts, I imagine that there's more than a decade of built up fat that could be trimmed with little pain to the general public. The wallets of their special interests might be lighter - but the public they are supposed to be serving might get more bang for the buck.

 

Didn't see the $200K a year to FN as a point of debate.



#1443 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 December 2024 - 12:22 AM

screenshot-x_com-2024_12_11-03_21_03.png

 

https://x.com/kinsel...643430950179095

 

The Fall Economic Report is expected December 16th.  Almost 4 weeks later than other years.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 11 December 2024 - 12:23 AM.


#1444 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 10:22 AM

Crystal Pool: it's been mismanaged. The city has failed to maintain it in a way that would maximize the life of the facility - that's clear, there's no reason that Oak Bay pool is still very functional meanwhile, the Crystal Pool is past its best before date. Further: the best decision 10+ years ago may not be the best decision today. There's a strong argument to be had that the pool or a similar sized facility will not meet the recreational needs of the community for the next 50 - 100 years. Further, it is imaginable that the City might not be the best owner/operator of the facility - their track record speaks for itself. The city has neglected its responsibility - and now we're facing a project that is considerably more expensive than it would have been even 8 years ago. I am also not persuaded the existing location is the best feasible location to serve residents - perhaps something near Topaz Park or using lands near Rock Bay would be better situated and easily accessed by transit.

 

Ideally: there'd be a not for profit organization whose sole responsibility was the design/build/own/operate/maintenance of a recreational facility designed to meet the recreational needs of our city at large. Ideally, there'd be funding from both the CRD level and the province for a facility that will ultimately be used by residents across the region.



#1445 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 10:27 AM

So the 50m pool has no shallow end, and is kept colder than other pools.  Interesting.   That's pretty elite.


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#1446 Mike K.

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 10:29 AM

Could we not have made a deal with Bayview to have built the pool, in exchange for a significant density uplift?

What about building it as part of a redeveloped Blanshard Courts? Have a private partner build the pool, in exchange for market housing on the site. Lift the tower heights to 35 floors for the below market housing, give the private sector heights of 45 floors.

Not a penny spent by the taxpayer, with a huge property tax win for the City. That location would also liven up Blanshard Courts and attract more out-of-municipal users of the pool.
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#1447 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 10:32 AM

Nobody thinks that smart.

#1448 Mike K.

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 10:32 AM

Remember how a few years ago a new central library was an absolutely pressing need? I know of at least one developer that had offered to build a modern library branch as part of their project in the downtown core. The City never bought into the idea.

Are we certain the private sector isn’t prepared to build a pool for the City? The private sector built the newest fire hall.
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#1449 spanky123

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 10:40 AM

^ The City paid for the firehall and granted the developer a waiver on what turned out to be tens of millions of dollars in uplift. Not sure we got a great deal.

Edited by spanky123, 08 January 2025 - 10:40 AM.


#1450 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 10:51 AM

^ The City paid for the firehall and granted the developer a waiver on what turned out to be tens of millions of dollars in uplift. Not sure we got a great deal.

 

But did we get a better deal than we would have gotten otherwise given the lack of competency we seem to have when we choose to DIY these kinds of things? It might be tens of millions of uplift, but is the alternative even more in the form of cost over runs because of incompetency??


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#1451 Barrister

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 11:06 AM

How many professional Olympic pools does the CRD need. The one in Saanich is more than enough. Build a pool for regular people and be done with it.



#1452 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 11:32 AM

How many professional Olympic pools does the CRD need. The one in Saanich is more than enough. Build a pool for regular people and be done with it.

 

 We need a rec centre that can facilitate the need for swim lessons, therapy, and recreational programming. The pool is going to be for "regular people" - it's quite sad that every town in Alberta has recreation facilities that blow the doors off of what we have here. Millenium place, Sherwood Park, the Big Marble, Medicine Hat and the facilities in Red Deer all come to mind. The ones in Langford, again put ours to shame. Families deserve to have accessible, affordable recreation facilities.



#1453 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 11:43 AM

I don’t even understand the need for “swimming lessons”. Show a person how to tread water, the rest that they can figure out. It’s not rocket science.

#1454 Blair M.

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 11:51 AM

So the 50m pool has no shallow end, and is kept colder than other pools.  Interesting.   That's pretty elite.

If there's even 1000 elite level swimmers in Victoria who would make serious use of such a training facility, I'd be shocked.

$200 million for a few hundred competitive swimmers - swimmers who already have existing choices with far better parking, and much higher personal safety while walking from their car to the front door of the facility.

 

As these details start to come to the fore, this new facility makes less and less sense every day - and it already made little to no sense to begin with.



#1455 aastra

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 12:23 PM

 

What about building it as part of a redeveloped Blanshard Courts?

 

You know what? That's actually not a bad thought. I still think the RAP parking lot or the arena parking lot would be best re: keeping the aquatic centre in (effectively) its current location while also not needing to rip out the south half of Central Park during construction. But Blanshard Courts could also work in this regard, and could actually be even more of a win-win in some other aspects as you suggest.

 

Methinks we can assume the CoV doesn't want to vacate Central Park because their intrusion there ("the rape of Central Park", as some commentators referred to it) was a controversial aspect of the original aquatic centre controversy back in ~1970. Suffice it to say, if our modern green principles were actually principles then relocating the new pool somewhere else and restoring 100% of Central Park to park space would have been a slam-dunk lead-pipe cinch.*

 

*mixed metaphors

 

 

Daily Colonist
January 23, 1970

These figures do not include $200,000 already spent from the tax sale lands account to buy property in the Caledonia Avenue and Green Street area. The land was the original choice for the pool site, but since has been designated for parking.

 



#1456 Mike K.

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 01:21 PM

^ The City paid for the firehall and granted the developer a waiver on what turned out to be tens of millions of dollars in uplift. Not sure we got a great deal.

It was a better deal than the potential for cost overruns and delays, an almost guaranteed issue with government-driven large scale investments.

We cannot exist as a society if every step we take dooms us. There has to be room for upside, and recognizing it/giving it credit when the credit is due.

You never see fault with Russia’s imperialism but condemn our society as a failure with every step we take, in your eyes. What solutions can you bring to the table that are workable? How would you go about the pool scenario, for example?

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#1457 Harry

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 02:00 PM

My daughter teaches swimming in the CRD and pool space and pool time is at a premium. The CRD could support 2 more pools easily. We have some of the best swimmers here however with the lack of pool space a lot of clubs and teams have had to ether cut back or fold. Does the city of Victoria need to replace the pool absolutely. Is the city of Victoria Council and management at city hall responsable enough to make the project work? Absolutely not. The city has a track record of tacking on "extra" bits to large infrastructure projects that push the end total well over the expected cost. Every one in city hall and on council seems to want to add some kind of personal vanity project on to city projects. Look at clover point for starters. 


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#1458 lanforod

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 03:32 PM

There's a difference between 'the CRD could use 2 more pools easily' and 'the CRD could financially support 2 more pools easily'. If the demand is there, let private enterprise help.


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#1459 Mike K.

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 03:41 PM

Is the demand pressure a result of UVic closing its pool?

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#1460 Harry

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Posted 12 January 2025 - 08:01 PM

Is the demand pressure a result of UVic closing its pool?

No Victoria has always been short on pools, Ice rinks etc


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