1487 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

You never see fault with Russia’s imperialism but condemn our society as a failure with every step we take, in your eyes. What solutions can you bring to the table that are workable? How would you go about the pool scenario, for example?

 

I would start with an unbiased assessment of what it would go to properly repair/modernize the pool as opposed to the only option being choosing between two luxury replacements. Oak Bay and Saanich both seem to be able to maintain their pools affordably. 

[Mike K.]

How do we know an unbiased assessment hasn’t already been done?

[Barrister]

Good point Mike, but do you actually know if one has been done, You are more up to date than I am. But you are very reliable as to providing research.

[spanky123]

How do we know an unbiased assessment hasn’t already been done?

 

If they had, and it stated that replacement was the best option, they would have produced it.

 

IIRC, they was an assessment done the last time around and it basically said that it would be almost as expensive retrofitting the pool to include all of the new services and features as it would be to replace it.  That is not what we are looking for though, the comparison should be to updating the existing services and features, not trying to add a hole bunch of new vanity stuff in.

Edited by spanky123, 13 January 2025 - 11:57 AM.

[Mike K.]

That's tricky, because if you don't add more stuff in, you are then criticized for not taking advantage of an opportunity to add more stuff in, since you're building something brand new.

[Barrister]

Do we need a whole bunch of new stuff or just a good working pool?

[Blair M.]

Large third party consulting companies are always very active up front in determining what the customers (City of Victoria) desired result for any given report or assessment would be (a new pool complex).

 

Those large consulting companies then ensure that the customer gets their money's worth, and we see that the customers report or assessment as generated leaning towards (or going directly to) the customers desired end result.

Contracted third party reports or assessments or studies always need to be taken with a very large grain of salt.

 

In my experience, third party contractors organize and consolidate ideas already firmly planted in the customers head, and then turn those ideas into a stamped, presentable paper or video report that supports those customer ideas.

The consultants then send their invoice, often in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, directly to the customer for payment.

[dasmo]

If your report that you got paid $1,000,000 for doesn’t say what they want you don’t get hired again.

[dasmo]

And when $750,000 of that is pure profit…. Your report will most definitely prove what it must.

[spanky123]

If your report that you got paid $1,000,000 for doesn’t say what they want you don’t get hired again.

 

No risk since the terms of reference state the desired outcome. 

[dasmo]

Jus a reminder of where Lisa Helps placed her priorities during her time leading our city administration during an addiction, housing and homelessness crisis. 

Here Lisa Helps is posing with her covenant of Mayors during the signing of the Edmonton Declaration. Where they signed an agreement to dedicate our resources to controlling the global climate to within 1.5 deg. 

[Moxuz]

This guy thinking he’s still relevant is very funny

 

 

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[Moxuz]

My daughter teaches swimming in the CRD and pool space and pool time is at a premium. The CRD could support 2 more pools easily. We have some of the best swimmers here however with the lack of pool space a lot of clubs and teams have had to ether cut back or fold. Does the city of Victoria need to replace the pool absolutely. Is the city of Victoria Council and management at city hall responsable enough to make the project work? Absolutely not. The city has a track record of tacking on "extra" bits to large infrastructure projects that push the end total well over the expected cost. Every one in city hall and on council seems to want to add some kind of personal vanity project on to city projects. Look at clover point for starters. 

The pool plans seem pretty basic. What’s being added unnecessarily here? Trying to make a smaller pool (which makes no sense as our city grows and demand is already not met with the existing one) and watching construction costs go up for the next few years seems like a bad idea. The fiscally responsible option is to build it before it goes up another 50% like when we listened to the NIMBYs in 2019 or so. Reducing the tax increase by upzoning to allow more housing is also the responsible thing to do (since the pool stays the same cost but more taxpayers help out). 
 

the YMCA pool closing and Uvic’s pool closing doesn’t help the situation, either. 
 

I also don’t understand the “meddling” current council is doing comments. I know there isn’t much to run on politically now as a conservative person, and that this allows to change opinions on something like no longer approving of a new pool, but these plans are the same ones from 7 years ago. Current council hasn’t done anything to them…?

Edited by Moxuz, 25 January 2025 - 05:42 PM.

[Mike K.]

The fiscally responsible option is to build it before it goes up another 50% like when we listened to the NIMBYs in 2019 or so. Reducing the tax increase by upzoning to allow more housing is also the responsible thing to do (since the pool stays the same cost but more taxpayers help out).

the YMCA pool closing and Uvic’s pool closing doesn’t help the situation, either.

It wasn’t NIMBYs, it was the province encouraging the City to hold a referendum that killed that proposal, no?

I’m starting to wonder if the rapid population growth is forcing costs to rise faster. We just went through a notable growth spurt, and costs are spiralling out of control.

[lanforod]

High demand = high prices. Rapid population growth = high demand. Yep.

[Stephen Andrew]

This guy thinking he’s still relevant is very funny

As relevant as another other voter, except I transparently use my name rather than cowardly hide behind a pseudonym taking pot shots.

And as I’ve also said, I am happy to have an open discussion with anyone on my position on the pool referendum - isn’t that what democracy is about - having open debate of political issues 🤦‍♂️?

Edited by Stephen Andrew, 25 January 2025 - 10:17 PM.

[FogPub]

The pool plans seem pretty basic. What’s being added unnecessarily here? Trying to make a smaller pool (which makes no sense as our city grows and demand is already not met with the existing one) and watching construction costs go up for the next few years seems like a bad idea. The fiscally responsible option is to build it before it goes up another 50% like when we listened to the NIMBYs in 2019 or so. Reducing the tax increase by upzoning to allow more housing is also the responsible thing to do (since the pool stays the same cost but more taxpayers help out).
 

The fiscally responsible option is to not build it, but instead to properly fix and maintain the pool that is already there.

[Victoria Watcher]

The fiscally responsible option is to not build it, but instead to properly fix and maintain the pool that is already there.

 

Correct.

[dasmo]

The fiscally responsible option is to not build it, but instead to properly fix and maintain the pool that is already there.

Yes

[dasmo]

The pool plans seem pretty basic. What’s being added unnecessarily here? Trying to make a smaller pool (which makes no sense as our city grows and demand is already not met with the existing one) and watching construction costs go up for the next few years seems like a bad idea. The fiscally responsible option is to build it before it goes up another 50% like when we listened to the NIMBYs in 2019 or so. Reducing the tax increase by upzoning to allow more housing is also the responsible thing to do (since the pool stays the same cost but more taxpayers help out).

the YMCA pool closing and Uvic’s pool closing doesn’t help the situation, either.

I also don’t understand the “meddling” current council is doing comments. I know there isn’t much to run on politically now as a conservative person, and that this allows to change opinions on something like no longer approving of a new pool, but these plans are the same ones from 7 years ago. Current council hasn’t done anything to them…?

Basic? They are proposing for Guggenheim level money not basic.