26019 replies to this topic

[LJ]

 

I don't disagree with your primary points however unlike Fairfield and the other neighborhoods - note I am a former resident of both James Bay and Fairfield - Gorge-Burnside and soon VicWest will have permanent structures dedicated expressly to housing the homeless not to mention having to deal with the unpleasant street-level drug and crime side effects that go with much of that demographic.

You mean to tell me that you think that with all the "wrap around supports" we are providing these people we will not get them off drugs, working and contributing to society rather than taking the dole?

 

I can't believe you're that cynical.

Edited by LJ, 19 March 2021 - 07:28 PM.

[martini]

Tonight council voted 7-2 to give final approval to the bylaw ending 24/7 camping on May 1. In favour: Helps, Alto, Andrew, Loveday, Potts, Thornton-Joe, and Young. Dubow and Isitt opposed.

Earlier in the evening, after a public hearing, they approved the tiny homes for the RAP parking lot.

Isitt wanted final approval of the bylaw postponed until April 8 because the tiny homes won’t be finished until April 30, and the province hasn’t confirmed binding agreements and details for other sheltering spaces. Dubow said we will be pushing out people who have no place to go on May 1.

Adding that camping will be prohibited period from Centennial Square, Central Park and Cecelia Ravine. 

 

My question is, what will the remediation costs wind up being? I expect there should be transparency around this. 

 

Money that could have been better spent actually providing the very services people need. 

 

IMO Topaz should have been the only one allowed 24/7 camping during the pandemic. 

It was already set up with services. 

Instead council allowed an expensive endeavor to spread camping to several parks. 

I don't even know how BHP can be remediated at this point. Or what's been done to Cecelia Ravine. 

[Victoria Watcher]

You mean to tell me that you think that with all the "wrap around supports" we are providing these people we will not get them off drugs, working and contributing to society rather than taking the dole?

 

I can't believe you're that cynical.

 

shocking but true.  

 

the more support we provide the less likely it is for them - on the whole - to move off this lifestyle and into independence.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 19 March 2021 - 07:39 PM.

[Mike K.]

Twitter: “OMG Two blocks from Vic West tents. Someone used the doorway of my apartment as their toilet. Where are my rights as a taxpayer?”

“My apt manager cleaned up the feces. #yyj Waiting for the carpet cleaner to come. Mgr is ready to quit. No consequences for bad behaviour. No respect. What’s happened?. @CityOfVictoria”

“Carpet cleaner has arrived to remove the remaining feces from the outdoor carpet by the door. Grateful the stench and stain will be gone. Hope the pooping perp doesn’t return.” Dlw1805

[A Girl is No one]

I don't disagree with your primary points however unlike Fairfield and the other neighborhoods - note I am a former resident of both James Bay and Fairfield - Gorge-Burnside and soon VicWest will have permanent structures dedicated expressly to housing the homeless not to mention having to deal with the unpleasant street-level drug and crime side effects that go with much of that demographic.

All you have to do is ask current Gorge-Burnside residents how that is going. Hardly a day goes by without yet another report of an assault, a B&E, a firearm, knife or other weapons offence...

BHP and other "parks" will soon be off limits to the homeless as of May: unfortunately for their residents Gorge-Burnside and now VicWest won't experience that happy reality until who knows when. Those folks are stuck with the situation and will it be months, years - or decades - before a more permanent solution is found? Who knows. But since the homeless can't go back to BH and other parks it seems highly likely these less fortunate neighborhoods are going to bear the brunt of the problem for a long_long time.

So my question stands: when will James Bay, Rockland, Fairfield and perhaps above all Fernwood - considering both Helps and Isitt reside there - stand up, be counted and take on their share of the semi-permanently housed homeless? Why is it incumbent on the hapless folks of Gorge-Burnside (especially), and now apparently Vic West, to have to repeatedly bend over?

Again... Within a few blocks of where I am (in Fairfield) I have currently three permanent homeless facilities: camas gardens, sandy merryman and mt Edwards. With more coming from BC housing on Meares. There are many more social housing buildings too.

I think the issue is there are so many of those that they are everywhere yet politicians and activists are telling us we’re not doing our part. A friend of mine mapped out all the homeless/ social housing facilities in the area a few years ago. It was shocking how many there were... might explain why we get the clown council we have... there are several hundreds units more today.

Anyway we have to stop accepting the mayhem. Housing the homeless is fine (as long as they are local ones with roots here) but we should not have to tolerate the lawlessness. And I think those two things are not mutually exclusive. As mentioned on this site before: enforce the law, support the mentally ill with proper care and lock up criminals. The homeless would be welcomed anywhere because people don’t mind them, they mind being terrorized in their own neighborhoods by thugs that are above the law, and sadly people who can hurt them because they are suffering from illness they can’t control.

[A Girl is No one]

Reminds me how suburbs fill up and eventually join up to make one big city without boundaries.
Rock Bay to downtown to Burnside Gorge to North Park to Oaklands to Vic west to Fairfield to
James bay and before you know it, the whole city is a gong show (except Fernwood of course because her worse ship lives there, and Rockland since they don’t have parks).

[JimV]

respectfully.  i think you miss the issues.

 

those who think the end of 24/7 camping means marauding zombies 7am to 7pm.  are wrong.

 

the end of 7am to 7pm squatting means these folks actually agree to cohabitate and live somewhat normal lives.   they make it work.  indoors.

 

it's only when we let them squat 24/7 for free that they become useless parasites.  sleeping half the day.  doing drugs the other half of the day.   and robbing the neighbours' yards and sheds and basements the final half of the day.

 

when we provide them with a 24/7 base for their criminal operations, they utilize it to store and merchandise goods.

 

when we make them pack up 7am to 7pm, they will chose to travel with less stolen **** onboard daily.

I agree that would be a good outcome.  But I am pessimistic that 24/7 will actually end, for the following reasons:

 

1.  Reluctance of council to enforce bylaws in the past.

2.  Obstruction by some council members and the poverty industry, probably in connection with campers who refuse to leave.

3.  Arrival of new campers.  I'm not aware of any mechanism to stop this.

4.  Acceptance of 7/7 camping. It's just a short step to repeating the whole mess again.

 

Beyond that there are two additional issues:

 

1.  A lot of the 7/7 group will end up hanging out in downtown doorways, on Pandora Street, etc during the day.

2.  The so called "wrap around supports" don't exist unless they have recently sprung from the brow of Jove.  Experience suggests that the temporary shelters will remain lawless, drug infested enclaves.

 

All this can be avoided with sufficient resolve.  I'm just not optimistic we'll see it (and I hope I'm wrong.)

[Victoria Watcher]

there are so very few 7/7ers though.  it's not a pleasant life.  so they go elsewhere or deeper into woods or they finally smarten up and cohabitate.

 

7/7 puts people into a better life with a bit of stick.  often we need more stick rather than the tremendous amounts of carrot that's clearly not working to remove people from this type of life.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 March 2021 - 07:01 AM.

[JimV]

there are so very few 7/7ers though.  it's not a pleasant life.  so they go elsewhere or deeper into woods or they finally smarten up and cohabitate.

Yes, because most of them are currently living full time in the parks.  The question is whether bylaw will actually enforce the 24/7 ban.  I’m doubtful for the reasons outlined above.

[kitty surprise]

often we need more stick rather than the tremendous amounts of carrot

 

[berzele]

Re. "The answer is to jail the criminals and confine the mentally ill and drug addicts in treatment facilities"

Yes. And city staff and elected officials have no authority or jurisdiction to do that. Electing a different council won't magically give the city powers that they don't have.

[Nparker]

Council does have the power to enforce bylaws that make it significantly less appealing to be a squatter in the CoV. This is a good place to start.

[rmpeers]

Did the City ever get its court ruling regarding appropriate uses for the park?

[Nparker]

Did the City ever get its court ruling regarding appropriate uses for the park?

You mean Council's attempt to get the BHP trust overturned? I don't believe any decision has come down yet.

[chrisS]

The Catherine Street Tai-chi center being converted to a homeless shelter for single older males,  doesn't seem to be a match to go in the middle of a family oriented community, and just a block away from vic-west elementary school. I trusted Together Victoria,  I heard them say that they would make "communities more family-friendly"  I feel betrayed.  

[JimV]

I think the family friendly part is blocking off roads and building traffic obstructions.  I guess that could be family friendly unless, of course, the families have to drive anywhere.

 

i don’t feel betrayed because I never trusted them or believed a word they said in the first place.  Well, let me qualify that.  They did promise to build a network of unnecessary, expensive and intrusive bicycle paths and have kept their word.  So there’s that.

[North Shore]

The Catherine Street Tai-chi center being converted to a homeless shelter for single older males,  doesn't seem to be a match to go in the middle of a family oriented community, and just a block away from vic-west elementary school. I trusted Together Victoria,  I heard them say that they would make "communities more family-friendly"  I feel betrayed.  

 

So, it's not my neighbourhood, so perhaps i shouldn't speak?  OTOH, my perception of 'homeless, single, older males' is a *lot* better than the neck-tattooed, BMX riding chop-shop operators that I stereotype as being the typical younger male homeless..  I'd rather have a 45 year old guy who's been through the 'war', and is now struggling to get his life back on track, than someone who's still in the trenches...

[Nparker]

...I trusted Together Victoria...

That was a naive mistake, and can be forgiven.  Just please don't make it again in October 2022.

[A Girl is No one]

The Catherine Street Tai-chi center being converted to a homeless shelter for single older males, doesn't seem to be a match to go in the middle of a family oriented community, and just a block away from vic-west elementary school. I trusted Together Victoria, I heard them say that they would make "communities more family-friendly" I feel betrayed.

They always seem to build those next to schools. Mt Edwards is 18 steps away from a school. The old boys and girls club on Yates is across the street from the central middle school. They had a large tent city in BHP across from South Park school, etc. They are not doing anything they haven’t done before. You just didn’t care when it happened to others.

[pennymurphy2000]

You just didn’t care when it happened to others.

This! People don't fully comprehend until a facility moves into their neighbourhood. Then they get it. Then they care. 

The abuse we were subjected to by residents of other neighbourhoods was unreal.