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Victoria homelessness and street-related issues


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#61 Mike K.

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 10:41 PM

Ugghh! I was purposefully staying away from VV for 4-5 months until curiosity cause me to take a "small peak". What do I find?


I believe you were suspended, hence your absence.

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#62 TheVisionary

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 12:02 PM

Ugghh! I was purposefully staying away from VV for 4-5 months until curiosity cause me to take a "small peak". What do I find?


I believe you were suspended, hence your absence.

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For the record for all to see, I was suspended by the moderators, that's true. I was only suspended for 2-4 weeks, the other 3-4 months of absence was by my own choice. Nothing really has changed that much, not much to see, I think I'll go back into self imposed exile.

#63 TheVisionary

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 12:14 PM

Sorry Gum Gum that wasn't directed at you, I had just read The Visionary's other post and realised he managed to find an opportunity to name-call, use swear words in all of them, not to mention being outright insulting to the forum where he is a guest.


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Yes, yes. extreme points of views, etc, etc, etc. During my "other" voluntary 3-4 months absence, I found a USA chat forum where the participants type beat up each other on the chat. anything goes, foul language etc. The idea is to let everyone go at each, free for all, like a WWE Wrestling match. It was exciting and refreshing. May of my fellow victorians are like opera attendees, sshhhh, your typing too loud! I think I'll go back to that other chat site. Bye.

#64 Mike K.

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 02:04 PM

^don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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#65 Rorschach

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 04:27 PM

I think needle exchanges are wrong because it enables the bad behaviour. Bad behaviour should have consequences. If it did have costly consequences, perhaps the medical system would consider measures such as I suggest. What about the laws that prohibit possession of a hypodermic syringe? What lawful use of needles is being facillitated? It's helping people break the law. Monkeyman's point is right on the money.

#66 G-Man

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 05:04 PM

^ Based on that logic we should close bars, stip clubs, casinos, firing ranges, all-u-can eat buffets, cigar clubs... maybe nudist colonies and sex clubs too.

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#67 m0nkyman

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 05:27 PM

Bars, strip clubs, casinos, firing ranges, cigar clubs and all you can eat buffets all enable legal behaviour. Behaviour that does not need a crime to occur first.

Most people don't rob homes to go to a bar, or fire off a couple of rounds at the range.

Every single drug addict commits crimes in order to afford their habit.

#68 gumgum

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 05:42 PM

^You're still here?

#69 G-Man

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 05:46 PM

sorry the comment was IRT "bad behaviour". So if it was legal everything would be ok?

Every single drug addict commits crimes in order to afford their habit.


I am quite positive that this is not true. There are many drug addicts that are wealthy and pay for their addiction. It is almost true that evey drug user breaks the law while ingesting their drug of choice. Unless they are addicted to cold medication or sleeping pills...

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#70 Rorschach

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 06:21 PM

^ Based on that logic we should close bars, stip clubs, casinos, firing ranges, all-u-can eat buffets, cigar clubs... maybe nudist colonies and sex clubs too.


Why? Is everyone going to bars, buffets, cigar clubs, etc., ending up homeless and destroying Victoria?

There are consequences to such vices and none of them cause the same problems. If such vices result in medical conditions, they get treated.

#71 G-Man

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 06:30 PM

I would bet that smokers, drinkers and the morbidly obese cost us in the way of tax burden more money then the IV drug user. Not sure but would bet they do.

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#72 Urbalist

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 06:49 PM

Many citizens have unwavering sympathy for those on the street, a minority of which have real problems and many who just wanna fight for the right to part-tay (or is that want to rock & roll all night, and party every-day)?

And these citizens show that gratitude (and assuage their guilt), by providing them a constant and lucrative source of drug money via begging. "Spare change for the bus?" Indeed, the magic bus.

Have a read, into the day-in, day-out life of a street personnel, but don't call them unmotiated, these people are highly motivated. To them, it's more than a job, it's a lifestyle.

http://www.theglobea... ... /National/

#73 mikedw

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 09:46 PM

We have nothing to fear but fear itself...

Do you shop in stores that have signs posted "Private Property etc..."?

I don't..
...
Damn it, downtown's for people. All of them.


I think that it is everyone's downtown and that's what the riff-raff forget. They take ownership. They hide their syringes under planters; or reef through recycling. If they had their way, they'd turn downtown into the ground. But they can't go too far: if they drive out their marks (the people who are dumb to hand them money), they'll have to move on.

This is why they hang out downtown instead of our at Goldstream Park or on Ben Isitt's lawn (man, if they did the latter, I'd be driven to deliver pizzas and beer).

Unfortunately, they're our worst people.

My new favorite story about Victoria riff-raff. There is a guy I know who chases riff-raff off of his lawn. He won't let them relieve themselves or shoot-up in his woodshed. Why, the nerve! It's not his backyard.... Anyways, after all his resistance to the un-intended locals, he woke up to find that someone had gone through his woodshed and rummaged things around. His guest found a gas can and emptied it on the wood pile, then tried to light the pile with a whole bunch of matches. Luckily, the riff-raff didn't know that the gas can was actually filled with water; and he didn't catch on after the contents gave off that non-gasoline smell. It's blind luck that people are not being assaulted with more frequency.

I am stymied as to how to motivate shiftless people and clean up the criminals. I don't want anyone of them to go away. I just want their way of life and the harm they deliver to end.

Do they deserve to be treated with respect? Yes, but it has to be reciprocated. We're not chumps.

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#74 Rorschach

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:55 AM

I would bet that smokers, drinkers and the morbidly obese cost us in the way of tax burden more money then the IV drug user. Not sure but would bet they do.


But do we provide food for the obese, trips to Cuba for cigar smokers, extra money for compulsive gamblers, rolls of $5 bills for people addicted to strip clubs, ammunition for sport shooters, etc.? After all, such measures in the long run would be cheaper, eh? Giving drug addicts needles and safe injection sites at govenment expense makes about as much sense.

And yet again, you're making my point for me, because a morbidly obese person can get the condition treated medically. Every example you posted is something that can and should be treated medically. Is there a law against gluttonony as there is against drug use and possession? Do we have a bunch of morbidly obese people blocking the street, pissing and crapping in public, accosting people for money, or claiming to be a disabled veteran and carrying a "God bless" sign?

#75 G-Man

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 06:00 AM

While I am not sure that all can be treated with a pill I never disagreed that treatment wasn't necessary. I was just disagreeing that we don't need a needle exchange.

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#76 m0nkyman

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 07:09 AM

There is a huge difference between a needle exchange and a safe injection site.

#77 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 07:31 AM

Did you all read that G&M article that Urbalist pointed to in another thread (also one having to do with crime/ drug use)? He posted it yesterday, I think. Anyway, I read it and learned something that made my eyes pop out. Ottawa has a clinic that distributes pipes for smoking crack. The health & social workers who came up with it use all the same arguments about health, HIV / Hep.B spread, etc.

Oh, and crack use isn't going down at all.
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#78 G-Man

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 07:58 AM

I am not sure about the crack pipe thing as wouldn't be a similar risk as those associated with sharing a cigarette?

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#79 Caramia

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:16 AM

As long as we all understand that "they" is a specific bunch of people and don't start extending "they" to everyone who looks tattered, hangs out downtown, or happens to be without a home. Treat the criminals like criminals, sure, if someone is violent, abusive, or stealing then they need to be stopped for the good of us all. But I think a lot of times the net is too wide, which is also probably why it is ineffective.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
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#80 Caramia

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:18 AM

Feel free to drop by http://www.punkhistorycanada.ca Visionary, I'd be pleased to help you enjoy a more gloves off approach to forums there.

:twisted:
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

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