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Victoria homelessness issues


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#16561 martini

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 09:20 PM

One of the management guys from Our Place was on CFAX and was spinning the idea that there's no real violence going on, that it's just perception and if you only knew the people...He talked about how he walked to work there every day and never had any problems so he couldn't understand why text after text and call after call was describing alarming incidents between the street population and civilians. I honestly couldn't tell if he so deeply believed in what he was doing that he thought his perception was real or he was so deeply invested in the business that he's in that he's become willfully blind.

Are they trained in gaslighting? I experienced similar with someone connected to Our Place. It was a bit mindblowing to say the least.

#16562 A Girl is No one

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 05:31 AM

One thing for sure is that for people who claim to have so much empathy, they fail to have any for people they are not paid to advocate for...
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#16563 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 05:50 AM

Our focus on the Downtown Eastside didn’t come from some government announcement or press release. It came from observation.

In more than two decades covering the neighbourhood as a reporter, I’ve never seen it look worse. Or feel worse.

This first struck me when I was there in July to do an interview in front of the Balmoral Hotel about single-room occupancy (SRO) housing for The Early Edition.

I parked in front of 312 Main St. — the old police station — and got out to plug the meter. As I was feeding coins in, a woman in shorts stopped behind the car, stretched open a pant leg, and urinated on the road in front of me.

Then later, as I did the interview in front of the Balmoral at 159 East Hastings Street, a man settled in a doorway behind me and shot up.

 

 

https://newsinteract...form/new-normal



#16564 DavidL

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:35 AM

Vancouver’s DTES should be for us a look at 10 years into the future of continuing to follow the same failed policies. These same approaches have failed in Portland and San Francisco and Seattle. When the 4 pillars strategy was launched in Vancouver it was supposed to be the start of a new era. Yet only one pillar, harm prevention, seems to get any attention and as the article points out, the DTES has never been worse. We’re obviously headed in that direction but no one seems interested in changing course.
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#16565 Nparker

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:44 AM

...We’re obviously headed in that direction but no one seems interested in changing course.

The only change of course being suggested is to decriminalize all illicit drugs, under the mistaken belief this will somehow make things better.


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#16566 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:45 AM

When the 4 pillars strategy was launched in Vancouver it was supposed to be the start of a new era. Yet only one pillar, harm prevention, seems to get any attention 

 

right.  to review here are the 4 pillars:

 

prevention

treatment

harm reduction

enforcement

 

https://vancouver.ca...g-strategy.aspx

 

under enforcement:

 

The policy says that the VPD will continue to target street and middle-level drug traffickers and producers. Police will be guided by an individual’s behaviour in determining whether or not to lay drug or alcohol possession charges. Police will also target areas frequented by children, such as schools and parks, and other areas where possession or use of drugs could interfere with lawful use of the public areas by members of the community.

 

 

 

we know that here possession is not ever met with charges and drug possession in parks especially is not enforced against.  we have homeless users in overnight park camps.

 

on prevention:

 

The prevention pillar includes strategies and interventions that help prevent harmful use of alcohol, tobacco, and both illegal and prescription drugs.

 

 

Goals of the drug policy prevention plan

The plan will:

  • Reduce individual, family, neighbourhood and community harm from substance use
  • Delay onset of first substance use
  • Reduce incidence (rate of new cases over a period of time) and prevalence (number of current cases at one time in a population) of problematic substance use and substance dependence
  • Improve public health, safety and order.

 

we do not see anything that even resembles a plan to "delay onset of first substance use" or reduce incidence rates or to improve safety and order.

 

and i think we know treatment is non-existent unless the subject makes a clear sober and continued choice to become clean.  and that happens so very very rarely.

 

this was 2016:

 

Island Health spokeswoman Kellie Hudson said 45 people are on a wait-list for the 21-bed detox unit at Royal Jubilee Hospital. That is more than double the usual number, but isn’t out of the norm for the Christmas season, especially given the cold weather, she said.

 

 

Twenty of those on the wait-list are “active and ready for treatment.” The emergency department or mental-health care team would like to see the others attend detox, but the client might not be ready.

 

Wait times for a bed range from three to 11 days, with the average being six to seven days.

 

 

so if a 6 to 7 day wait jeopardizes so many chances i'm not sure many of the hundreds of addicts we have here are really interested in the commitment required for quitting.

 

https://www.timescol...lists-1.5216922


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 07 September 2019 - 08:56 AM.

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#16567 rmpeers

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 12:11 PM

Are they trained in gaslighting? I experienced similar with someone connected to Our Place. It was a bit mindblowing to say the least.


But if they took bold steps to help get people better, then bye bye funding. Not saying that's the reason they don't do a better job; it could just be they're not very good at it. You have to wonder what targets they have to hit to get their finding; the bar must be set very very low.

Either way, their approach and the whole set up here only aids one group: drug dealers.
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#16568 DustMagnet

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 01:39 PM

But if they took bold steps to help get people better, then bye bye funding. Not saying that's the reason they don't do a better job; it could just be they're not very good at it. You have to wonder what targets they have to hit to get their finding; the bar must be set very very low.

Either way, their approach and the whole set up here only aids one group: drug dealers.

 

It's always either malice or incompetence it seems.

 

However, if their bold steps succeeded they would only need to prove that continued funding would prevent poverty/homelessness/drug addiction from resurging.

 

But I'm not ready to chalk it up to sheer incompetence either - perhaps there are complicating factors (e.g. government) that prevent plans from being too bold.  I don't know - I'm not in that "industry".



#16569 Rob Randall

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:08 PM

Trump advisers touring unused FAA facility outside L.A. for homeless use.

 

https://thehill.com/...-potential-site

 

I have to give Trump (and Bush) credit for trying to solve homelessness. It helps that the U.S. feds have more power to make things happen than we do.


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#16570 LJ

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 07:55 PM

I still wish we could move on from calling it a homelessness crisis to what it really is, a drug and worklessness crisis.


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#16571 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 06:25 AM

this is all fine for this person to say. her salary and most of her education is paid for by taxpayers. but we need clean streets and nice environments for our tourist and other commerce to flourish so we can pay for her.


https://www.timescol...sore-1.23943366

There has not been any shortage of news surrounding the opioid and housing crisis many residents in Greater Victoria have been facing in recent years. It’s disheartening to see people, such as the letter-writer from Tucson, Arizona, expressing an opinion many others have also aired: that addiction and homelessness should be hidden away, and that we should “move the help centres to areas that tourists and children don’t populate.”

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 September 2019 - 06:25 AM.


#16572 Sparky

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 06:32 AM

I read that piece this morning and I still can’t get over it.
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#16573 rmpeers

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 08:30 AM

That piece struck me as coming from someone whose motivation is to preserve the status quo, whether it's working or not. (Spoiler: it isn't)

Since a walk down pandora will reveal to anyone that the system is a failure, how can one argue in favour of it?

The fall-back is that anyone who doesn't like the current setup simply wants to hide the problem away because of their own priviledge.

I would suggest that another approach would be to stroll down Pandora, look at the people you see there and ask yourself "does the system appear to be working for these people? Might these people have a better chance if housing and services could be provided in a different location?"

Maybe we first need to get people of the addiction to being downtown, where dealers and such have a trapped target market currently.

And if, as the writer says, it's difficult because of the housing crisis, then why not try establishing services in a less pricey location?
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#16574 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 08:46 AM

maybe we should be more realistic.

most homeless people have low iqs poor literacy and minimal quality job skills.

then for most of the ones that don’t fit the above description they have drug or alcohol addictions.

#16575 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:36 AM

 

It is a privileged notion to think that we can solve all of our problems by simply moving services out of the downtown core.

 

 

The troubled people and their problems were not born downtown. The troubled people and their problems have no connection to the downtown core, and never did. We shuffled the troubled people and their problems into the downtown core because we didn't care about the downtown core and we also didn't care about the troubled people. We subscribed to the privileged notion that our neighbourhoods and suburbs were more precious than downtown was, and thus we moved the troubled people away from their own homes, loved ones, and close acquaintances and into the downtown core.

 

 

When services are moved to areas that are difficult to access, people don’t or can’t use them. Bus transport is becoming more expensive, so location of services affects whether or not someone will take that step to get there.

We are in the midst of a housing crisis, so where would we even find room to relocate these facilities?

And would that not only serve to further the gentrification of the downtown so that no one can afford to live there anymore...

 

And now we're defending the selfish decision on the grounds of administrative convenience. Such compassion.

 

How about relocating to areas that are cheaper, safer, more familiar, and much closer to where the troubled people are actually from? Just a thought. Sell the downtown properties (the trend downtown is gentrification, right?), and use the profits to develop newer, better & smaller facilities in distributed locations much closer to the people who need them.

Stop forcing troubled people to come downtown. Centralization and concentration have no relevance to this mission. A huge mistake was made. Stop defending the mistake and begin rectifying it.

 

 

None of this can happen if we are hiding away the people that need these services the most. Instead, we are appeasing those privileged individuals who would rather sweep the reality of addiction under the rug for the sake of “Beautiful Victoria.”

 

How the heck would we be hiding people away if we allowed them to remain where they're from instead of ejecting them to some unfamiliar district many miles away or even many cities away?

 

We've been marginalizing, rejecting, and then banishing our supposed loved ones as a matter of course, and we've been dressing up this vile practice as if it were something commendable. Stop it. Stop doing it.

 

Downtown's residential revival has exposed the falsity of these supposedly humanitarian premises. Tensions are rising because downtown is fast becoming a neighbourhood. Hence, disingenuous people are preaching more urgently now, because if downtown becomes a neighbourhood like any other then why should downtown be expected to carry the burdens of all other neighbourhoods on its back? It wouldn't make any sense. If every other neighbourhood has a sacred right to dispose its problems elsewhere, then shouldn't downtown have the very same right?

 

What it boils down to is this: the hypocrites absolutely do not want the troubled people (family, friends, neighbours) and their issues to remain in their own neighbourhoods. Get lost. Go downtown, where you'll be out of my sight. (Note how that prideful Victorian adage re: "I never go downtown" seems much less endearing and much more contemptible when regarded in this light.)

 

We'll know the hypocrisy has ended when downtown has a few small services to serve its local residents only, and every other neighbourhood and municipality finally has the same.


Edited by aastra, 13 September 2019 - 09:37 AM.

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#16576 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:48 AM

 

And if, as the writer says, it's difficult because of the housing crisis, then why not try establishing services in a less pricey location?

 

It's just amazing how the thought never, ever crosses their minds. We have doctors and dentists and physiotherapists distributed all over town, in every neighbourhood. We have schools in every neighbourhood, recreation centres, shopping centres. Distributed facilities = easy access for a large number of people.

 

But for some reason these services are the exception. These services MUST be downtown, concentrated together. These services wouldn't make sense anywhere else. Put them anywhere else and they would be difficult to access.

 

The contradictions just pile up. Didn't we have a big deal not too long ago re: a tent city near Uptown? And haven't there been homeless along the Goose and boat squatters on the Gorge and elsewhere for ages? And yet the self-proclaimed advocates still insist it's all about downtown? Other areas are irrelevant?


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#16577 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:52 AM

well said.

#16578 DustMagnet

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:26 AM

It's just amazing how the thought never, ever crosses their minds. We have doctors and dentists and physiotherapists distributed all over town, in every neighbourhood. We have schools in every neighbourhood, recreation centres, shopping centres. Distributed facilities = easy access for a large number of people.

 

But for some reason these services are the exception. These services MUST be downtown, concentrated together. These services wouldn't make sense anywhere else. Put them anywhere else and they would be difficult to access.

 

The contradictions just pile up. Didn't we have a big deal not too long ago re: a tent city near Uptown? And haven't there been homeless along the Goose and boat squatters on the Gorge and elsewhere for ages? And yet the self-proclaimed advocates still insist it's all about downtown? Other areas are irrelevant?

 

On the off-chance the question is not rhetorical...

Obviously the difference between support services and medial/dental services being distributed is the clientele.  People generally aren't bothered by the individuals attending the latter.

Many might claim compassion but just try setting up support services around the CRD and see if you get any push-back from residents of those areas. 



#16579 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:58 AM

 

Many might claim compassion but just try setting up support services around the CRD and see if you get any push-back from residents of those areas.

 

That's exactly my point. The addicts and the homeless come from "those areas". But the supposedly compassionate people don't want the addicts and homeless to remain in "those areas". They want them out of sight, out of mind. That's what certain corners of downtown used to be: out of sight, out of mind. But no longer.

 

Tensions are rising downtown because in the 21st century downtown is demonstrating less willingness to play its post-1945 role as the dumping ground that nobody cares about. So if downtown is changing (or more correctly, changing back), then where are we supposed to dump the troubled people that nobody cares about?

 

Crazy idea: don't dump them anywhere. And don't regard any area of the city as a dumping ground. Stop thinking like that.

 

We got away with this tactic for a few decades because the anti-downtown era was in full swing. That era is rapidly drawing to a close. Like it or not, there's no way around it, it's happening. Time to grow up, wake up... We need to start treating the troubled people like people instead of like problems.


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#16580 Mike K.

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:12 AM

aastra just served up some cold, hard truth.


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