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Victoria homelessness and street-related issues


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#16561 DustMagnet

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 01:39 PM

But if they took bold steps to help get people better, then bye bye funding. Not saying that's the reason they don't do a better job; it could just be they're not very good at it. You have to wonder what targets they have to hit to get their finding; the bar must be set very very low.

Either way, their approach and the whole set up here only aids one group: drug dealers.

 

It's always either malice or incompetence it seems.

 

However, if their bold steps succeeded they would only need to prove that continued funding would prevent poverty/homelessness/drug addiction from resurging.

 

But I'm not ready to chalk it up to sheer incompetence either - perhaps there are complicating factors (e.g. government) that prevent plans from being too bold.  I don't know - I'm not in that "industry".



#16562 Rob Randall

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:08 PM

Trump advisers touring unused FAA facility outside L.A. for homeless use.

 

https://thehill.com/...-potential-site

 

I have to give Trump (and Bush) credit for trying to solve homelessness. It helps that the U.S. feds have more power to make things happen than we do.



#16563 LJ

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 07:55 PM

I still wish we could move on from calling it a homelessness crisis to what it really is, a drug and worklessness crisis.


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#16564 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 06:25 AM

this is all fine for this person to say. her salary and most of her education is paid for by taxpayers. but we need clean streets and nice environments for our tourist and other commerce to flourish so we can pay for her.


https://www.timescol...sore-1.23943366

There has not been any shortage of news surrounding the opioid and housing crisis many residents in Greater Victoria have been facing in recent years. It’s disheartening to see people, such as the letter-writer from Tucson, Arizona, expressing an opinion many others have also aired: that addiction and homelessness should be hidden away, and that we should “move the help centres to areas that tourists and children don’t populate.”

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 September 2019 - 06:25 AM.


#16565 Sparky

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 06:32 AM

I read that piece this morning and I still can’t get over it.
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#16566 rmpeers

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 08:30 AM

That piece struck me as coming from someone whose motivation is to preserve the status quo, whether it's working or not. (Spoiler: it isn't)

Since a walk down pandora will reveal to anyone that the system is a failure, how can one argue in favour of it?

The fall-back is that anyone who doesn't like the current setup simply wants to hide the problem away because of their own priviledge.

I would suggest that another approach would be to stroll down Pandora, look at the people you see there and ask yourself "does the system appear to be working for these people? Might these people have a better chance if housing and services could be provided in a different location?"

Maybe we first need to get people of the addiction to being downtown, where dealers and such have a trapped target market currently.

And if, as the writer says, it's difficult because of the housing crisis, then why not try establishing services in a less pricey location?
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#16567 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 08:46 AM

maybe we should be more realistic.

most homeless people have low iqs poor literacy and minimal quality job skills.

then for most of the ones that don’t fit the above description they have drug or alcohol addictions.

#16568 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:36 AM

 

It is a privileged notion to think that we can solve all of our problems by simply moving services out of the downtown core.

 

 

The troubled people and their problems were not born downtown. The troubled people and their problems have no connection to the downtown core, and never did. We shuffled the troubled people and their problems into the downtown core because we didn't care about the downtown core and we also didn't care about the troubled people. We subscribed to the privileged notion that our neighbourhoods and suburbs were more precious than downtown was, and thus we moved the troubled people away from their own homes, loved ones, and close acquaintances and into the downtown core.

 

 

When services are moved to areas that are difficult to access, people don’t or can’t use them. Bus transport is becoming more expensive, so location of services affects whether or not someone will take that step to get there.

We are in the midst of a housing crisis, so where would we even find room to relocate these facilities?

And would that not only serve to further the gentrification of the downtown so that no one can afford to live there anymore...

 

And now we're defending the selfish decision on the grounds of administrative convenience. Such compassion.

 

How about relocating to areas that are cheaper, safer, more familiar, and much closer to where the troubled people are actually from? Just a thought. Sell the downtown properties (the trend downtown is gentrification, right?), and use the profits to develop newer, better & smaller facilities in distributed locations much closer to the people who need them.

Stop forcing troubled people to come downtown. Centralization and concentration have no relevance to this mission. A huge mistake was made. Stop defending the mistake and begin rectifying it.

 

 

None of this can happen if we are hiding away the people that need these services the most. Instead, we are appeasing those privileged individuals who would rather sweep the reality of addiction under the rug for the sake of “Beautiful Victoria.”

 

How the heck would we be hiding people away if we allowed them to remain where they're from instead of ejecting them to some unfamiliar district many miles away or even many cities away?

 

We've been marginalizing, rejecting, and then banishing our supposed loved ones as a matter of course, and we've been dressing up this vile practice as if it were something commendable. Stop it. Stop doing it.

 

Downtown's residential revival has exposed the falsity of these supposedly humanitarian premises. Tensions are rising because downtown is fast becoming a neighbourhood. Hence, disingenuous people are preaching more urgently now, because if downtown becomes a neighbourhood like any other then why should downtown be expected to carry the burdens of all other neighbourhoods on its back? It wouldn't make any sense. If every other neighbourhood has a sacred right to dispose its problems elsewhere, then shouldn't downtown have the very same right?

 

What it boils down to is this: the hypocrites absolutely do not want the troubled people (family, friends, neighbours) and their issues to remain in their own neighbourhoods. Get lost. Go downtown, where you'll be out of my sight. (Note how that prideful Victorian adage re: "I never go downtown" seems much less endearing and much more contemptible when regarded in this light.)

 

We'll know the hypocrisy has ended when downtown has a few small services to serve its local residents only, and every other neighbourhood and municipality finally has the same.


Edited by aastra, 13 September 2019 - 09:37 AM.

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#16569 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:48 AM

 

And if, as the writer says, it's difficult because of the housing crisis, then why not try establishing services in a less pricey location?

 

It's just amazing how the thought never, ever crosses their minds. We have doctors and dentists and physiotherapists distributed all over town, in every neighbourhood. We have schools in every neighbourhood, recreation centres, shopping centres. Distributed facilities = easy access for a large number of people.

 

But for some reason these services are the exception. These services MUST be downtown, concentrated together. These services wouldn't make sense anywhere else. Put them anywhere else and they would be difficult to access.

 

The contradictions just pile up. Didn't we have a big deal not too long ago re: a tent city near Uptown? And haven't there been homeless along the Goose and boat squatters on the Gorge and elsewhere for ages? And yet the self-proclaimed advocates still insist it's all about downtown? Other areas are irrelevant?


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#16570 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:52 AM

well said.

#16571 DustMagnet

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:26 AM

It's just amazing how the thought never, ever crosses their minds. We have doctors and dentists and physiotherapists distributed all over town, in every neighbourhood. We have schools in every neighbourhood, recreation centres, shopping centres. Distributed facilities = easy access for a large number of people.

 

But for some reason these services are the exception. These services MUST be downtown, concentrated together. These services wouldn't make sense anywhere else. Put them anywhere else and they would be difficult to access.

 

The contradictions just pile up. Didn't we have a big deal not too long ago re: a tent city near Uptown? And haven't there been homeless along the Goose and boat squatters on the Gorge and elsewhere for ages? And yet the self-proclaimed advocates still insist it's all about downtown? Other areas are irrelevant?

 

On the off-chance the question is not rhetorical...

Obviously the difference between support services and medial/dental services being distributed is the clientele.  People generally aren't bothered by the individuals attending the latter.

Many might claim compassion but just try setting up support services around the CRD and see if you get any push-back from residents of those areas. 



#16572 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:58 AM

 

Many might claim compassion but just try setting up support services around the CRD and see if you get any push-back from residents of those areas.

 

That's exactly my point. The addicts and the homeless come from "those areas". But the supposedly compassionate people don't want the addicts and homeless to remain in "those areas". They want them out of sight, out of mind. That's what certain corners of downtown used to be: out of sight, out of mind. But no longer.

 

Tensions are rising downtown because in the 21st century downtown is demonstrating less willingness to play its post-1945 role as the dumping ground that nobody cares about. So if downtown is changing (or more correctly, changing back), then where are we supposed to dump the troubled people that nobody cares about?

 

Crazy idea: don't dump them anywhere. And don't regard any area of the city as a dumping ground. Stop thinking like that.

 

We got away with this tactic for a few decades because the anti-downtown era was in full swing. That era is rapidly drawing to a close. Like it or not, there's no way around it, it's happening. Time to grow up, wake up... We need to start treating the troubled people like people instead of like problems.


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#16573 Mike K.

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:12 AM

aastra just served up some cold, hard truth.


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#16574 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:20 AM

 

Obviously the difference between support services and medial/dental services being distributed is the clientele.  People generally aren't bothered by the individuals attending the latter.

 

But you see how I'm exposing the inconsistency in this premise, right? How did we decide that downtown Victoria should be burdened, but not downtown Sidney and not Oak Bay Avenue and not Gordon Head? If we're so darned concerned about bothering people, then downtown was a lousy choice right out of the gate. And in the 21st century downtown is fast becoming an off-the-charts laughably nonsensical choice.

 

Downtown is full of people, but we don't want to bother people, so we stuff the bothersome things into downtown. Give me a break.

 

We don't want to see unpleasant stuff in our own neighbourhoods. Full stop. Even (especially?) when the unpleasant stuff is the product of our own neighbourhoods. This is the privileged & selfish attitude that needs to change.


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#16575 Matt R.

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:37 AM

Victoria needs a Mark Brand.

Matt.

#16576 Rob Randall

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 10:53 AM

Trump, a few minutes ago:

 

Trump says homeless people are living in "our best highways, our best streets, our best entrances to buildings" where people pay "tremendous taxes" and want "prestige." Says he's speaking to tenants who "want to leave the country." He adds: "We'll be doing something about it."

 

Let's face it, the primary problem that bothers us is the visual aspect of homelessness. Other politicians dance around the subject. 



#16577 Rob Randall

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:06 AM

Full quote:

 

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#16578 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:07 AM

yes the visual aspect sucks. something is wrong visually when an otherwise potentially functioning or even productive person is laid out in a doorway at 10am on a Tuesday morning. it’s looks real bad.
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#16579 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:12 PM

Sadly, at the core, is an inability to access a set of services that were perhaps more accessible previously in the context of drugs that are far more accessible now than they were.  Decades ago, people could be committed on mental health grounds far more easily than they can now.  Now, a person has to be on the brink of harming themselves or others before accessing urgent services.  Loved ones often find themselves in court as they are unable to repair the damage caused by a delusional and sick spouse who has gone off the rails but who lacks the insight to ask for help themselves.  We've further enabled those same people to self-medicate, which likely exacerbates the problem.  Protection of privacy means the people who might be best able to provide insight into the mental health of a loved one are locked out. 


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#16580 Love the rock

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:05 PM

But you see how I'm exposing the inconsistency in this premise, right? How did we decide that downtown Victoria should be burdened, but not downtown Sidney and not Oak Bay Avenue and not Gordon Head? If we're so darned concerned about bothering people, then downtown was a lousy choice right out of the gate. And in the 21st century downtown is fast becoming an off-the-charts laughably nonsensical choice.
 
Downtown is full of people, but we don't want to bother people, so we stuff the bothersome things into downtown. Give me a break.
 
We don't want to see unpleasant stuff in our own neighbourhoods. Full stop. Even
(especially?) when the unpleasant stuff is the product of our own neighbourhoods.
This is the privileged & selfish attitude that needs to change.

I’m not saying it’s all to do with Ms Helps at all . Some of it is her fault in my opinion.
When homeless from Sask with mental health issues arrived she welcomed them with open arms on the news .When campers flooded the courthouse lawn she told them they did a good job and gave them rewards . She also decided to pay them for their opinions.The money just walked out the door.People with addiction issues are looking for ways to make their lives easier.Lets face it they already struggle daily with getting high . We have provided an easier option especially if people feel they’ve worn out their welcome where they live now . We give them art lessons ,pet care ,all the food they will ever need ,clean needles somewhere safe to get high on and on and decent weather.
We also give them a sense of community in the downtown streets. We don’t make any of this difficult.You go to work to and pay taxes right or wrong to support this .
I think the mayor is partly to blame because of her naive attitude on the issues. Addicts are masters at manipulation ,it’s part of addiction. Helps seems to be distancing herself from the homeless lately after opening the flood gates . It’s not all her fault I do put part of the blame on her .
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