317 replies to this topic

[Caramia]

Our ents to us.

hmmm I bet that's not what you meant to say...

[aastra]

The ents don't justify the means.

[Willa]

In general, as a downtown resident, I am normally in favour of increased development. However, in this case, I can't see why the city is prepared to bulldoze a quaint greenspace -- itself a tourist attraction, but also a well-loved spot by locals -- to put up a building when there are so many empty lots around the downtown core.

Does anyone know what other lots the city could use for a gallery and museum? I know as I walk around downtown I see many surface parking lots and gaping holes in the ground that could surely be better used.

[Nparker]

I am sure the city is looking at this site and its proximity to many existing tourist amenities as the reason it is "ideal" for a satellite gallery and childrens' museum. While I see the latter as a bone fide rationale, I feel an AGGV extension would be better placed as part of a complete overhaul of the civic space at Centennial Square. It would give both tourists and locals a reason for coming to CS and "spreading the wealth" as it were of the Inner Harbour zone.

[homebrewer]

Having been involved in the process, there are only two camps that are for removing the lawn bowling green with a Children's museum and the art gallery. City council is for it, as well as the board of advisors on the Children's museum. Interestingly enough, they are in several cases one in the same. It's also worth noting perhaps, the Royal BC Museum was created as a children's museum.
Every single other person involved in this process has been in favour of leaving the lawn bowling green as is, and coming up with a plan the community agrees with.
Full disclosure: I, as well as several members of VV have joined the lawn bowling club as members in support of it.

[aastra]

Count me in as a critic/opponent of the plan to get rid of the bowling green. My two cents:

I don't understand why the city thinks this block would be a good spot for an attraction aimed at children. The Crystal Garden was a very good attraction and quite unique, and people weren't exactly beating down the door to get their kids into it.

The corner lot would be a good spot for a daring piece of architecture in which to house the Art Gallery, in my opinion. And it could be argued that the little park between the bowling green and the church has been more trouble than it's worth, so I'm open to redeveloping it as well.

But I see no good reason to be hasty with the bowling green site. Maybe I'm just pissed at the city. It bugs the heck out of me that they drag their feet for generations when it comes to redeveloping critical eyesore properties, but they just can't seem to wait to eject something unique like this bowling green.

Does anyone know what other lots the city could use for a gallery and museum? I know as I walk around downtown I see many surface parking lots and gaping holes in the ground that could surely be better used.

Does anybody have a calculator handy? We can figure out how many other sites there are.

[Holden West]

This guy has problems with the Chicago Children's Museum:

Anyone planning an activity for kids desires free parking with walkways that can accommodate strollers. Ideally, the location should offer nearby secondary activities like movie theaters, playgrounds, and a food court with an economical variety of healthy snacks and meals.

The last thing a caretaker wants is to fight downtown rush-hour traffic, music festivals, Soldier Field events and McCormick Place crowds flooding the Grant park area.

[Galvanized]

The nice thing about the Children's Museum in Seattle is that it's in Seattle Center so there's a ton of other stuff to do while your there.

[Ms. B. Havin]

This guy has problems with the Chicago Children's Museum:

The Chicago case is very contentious because it's going to eat up a section of Grant Park, which, like Beacon Hill Park, has all sorts of covenants placed on it, and it's supposed to be for public use in perpetuity. I think the author is deliberately highlighting those suburban aspects of free parking, amusement, and what sound like food courts, precisely because he's against the notion of a children's museum eating up part of Grant Park, especially if it's basically a corporate playland. His closing paragraph says as much:

These so-called "children's museums" do not have permanent art collections or a curatorial focus of historical relevance. Instead they are filled with toys, games and blatant corporate propaganda like miniature shopping carts so kids can pretend to buy look-a-like products found in real stores (sponsors). Occasionally there are temporary traveling exhibits analogous to the more reputable science museums. However, these children's museums are usually trumped up play places with little to offer in terms of educational value.

Therefore, since the primary value of the Chicago Children's Museum is amusement for toddlers, it does not belong in a public park (unless the admission is free like a playground). The appropriate location is a shopping mall or keeping it on Navy Pier.

I'm not sure this bit -- "...children's museums are usually trumped up play places with little to offer in terms of educational value" -- is always accurate, but clearly he's stressing that aspect because he wants the Chicago/ Grant Park Children's Museum concept to die.

As for us: Free parking in downtown Victoria for cultural facilities, whether art galleries or kids' museums? I don't think so. Maybe you could get some sort of discount if you buy an entry ticket to the venue. But free? Nuh-uh. With the Spaghetti Factory still on the corner, I think that fills the kids' food demand nicely. Maybe allow more food carts/ street vendors: that would be cool. A theatre? Go to the RBCM's OmniMax or whatever it's called.

By the way, Victoria has (or at least did, a few years ago) a lively community of story tellers. Some of those folks would be a natural fit for activities within a children's museum.

[Mike K.]

By the way, Victoria has (or at least did, a few years ago) a lively community of story tellers. Some of those folks would be a natural fit for activities within a children's museum.

It's still a pretty active community. I'd recommend to anyone who has an opportunity to sit in on a story telling to take it.

[Caramia]

Where? When? How do I get involved?

[Holden West]

My favourite stories were "Paris, the City With No Tall Buildings", and "How the Juliet Will Ruin Blanshard Street" and my most favourite, "Mt. St. Angela After the Earthquake--People Will Die!"

[martini]

Count me in as a critic/opponent of the plan to get rid of the bowling green. My two cents:

I don't understand why the city thinks this block would be a good spot for an attraction aimed at children. The Crystal Garden was a very good attraction and quite unique, and people weren't exactly beating down the door to get their kids into it.

The corner lot would be a good spot for a daring piece of architecture in which to house the Art Gallery, in my opinion. And it could be argued that the little park between the bowling green and the church has been more trouble than it's worth, so I'm open to redeveloping it as well.

But I see no good reason to be hasty with the bowling green site. Maybe I'm just pissed at the city. It bugs the heck out of me that they drag their feet for generations when it comes to redeveloping critical eyesore properties, but they just can't seem to wait to eject something unique like this bowling green.



Does anybody have a calculator handy? We can figure out how many other sites there are.

I feel the same way, and so do many others. It just seems wrong. Especially the way the city pulled the lease out from under the lawn bowling club.
I still ache over losing Crystal Gardens. Many children spent time there. Mine still can't understand why it was taken away.

[homebrewer]

To be clear, the city has not "pulled the lease out" from the lawn bowling club. The potential issue is they may choose not to renew the lease. June 26th the club will be presenting its proposal to city council, that it has worked on with the community over for the past 6 months.
If you care to show support for the lawn bowling club and Cridge park, we encourage you to join us at 7:15p.m. in front of city hall on June 26th, and we will all go in together. If you can find some, please wear all white clothing to show your solidarity. There is also a facebook group "Save the CP Lawn Bowling Green"[1], please invite anyone you can. This is our chance to show community support, and that we want to move forward as a community, not with conflicts of interest and hidden agendas.
If there is no community support, it will be replaced with buildings and gone forever as planned.

Thanks!

[1] http://www.facebook....eid=16160268217

[martini]

To be clear, the city has not "pulled the lease out" from the lawn bowling club. The potential issue is they may choose not to renew the lease. June 26th the club will be presenting its proposal to city council, that it has worked on with the community over for the past 6 months.
If you care to show support for the lawn bowling club and Cridge park, we encourage you to join us at 7:15p.m. in front of city hall on June 26th, and we will all go in together. If you can find some, please wear all white clothing to show your solidarity. There is also a facebook group "Save the CP Lawn Bowling Green"[1], please invite anyone you can. This is our chance to show community support, and that we want to move forward as a community, not with conflicts of interest and hidden agendas.
If there is no community support, it will be replaced with buildings and gone forever as planned.

Thanks!

[1] http://www.facebook....eid=16160268217

Thank you so much!
I will try and get as many down there as possible!

[Nparker]

If you care to show support for the lawn bowling club and Cridge park, we encourage you to join us at 7:15p.m. in front of city hall on June 26th...

Do we have to support both of these sites or support neither of them? While I would love to see the lawn bowling green preserved, Cridge Park is a seldom-used piece of poorly maintained "greenish" space. I have never seen it utilized by more than the occasional drunk or junkie "sleeping one off". It's proximity to the larger park space at St. Ann's pretty much renders it redundant at best and a liability at worst. I see no great loss to the city if this "park" is developed, especially if its development means saving the bowling green.

[G-Man]

^Good point and I think that the Bowling green's future is more secure without a Cridge Park.

Focus the energy on the bowling green and drop the waste of space next door.

[Caramia]

I agree there.

[jklymak]

I dunno about the Bowling Green. There is anther one 1.1 km away in Beacon Hill Park, and yet another in Vic West. None of which seem packed to the gills. i.e. I run by the one in BHP green ~3 times a week and I've never seen anyone there. I would hate to see development of this land prevented when lawn bowling greens don't seem to be a particularly scarce commodity.

[G-Man]

Then perhaps close the BHP Green and move those players downtown.