776 replies to this topic

[obscurantist]

Hey, the stops I wait at as part of my daily routine don't offer any protection from the elements whatsoever. I'll take coverage on three sides any day!

Well, some of the older Victoria bus shelters really are truly grungy -- although it was covered on all sides, I didn't like to wait in the one that used to be on Quadra by Mackenzie even when it was pouring, because it was a literal garbage dump in there.

But the newer Victoria bus shelters are pretty good. Not as pretty as the Vancouver ones, but they offer a little bit more coverage.

[UrbanRail]

I noticed in that first picture showing the new bus lanes along Douglas, that they made a mistake with placing the bus. It is on the wrong side. Its backwards, you cant see the doors.

Maybe i am just a bit picky, but you would think that those who do these pictures, would be a little more aware when presenting their ideas.

Aaron

[rayne_k]

A few points -

1) the station entrances should abut an intersection crosswalk so peds can get to them.

2) we'll need some buses that have doors opening on the *left* side. The toll boxes should also be at the entrance to each station for full-capacity boarding.


Ohh... maybe not, My #2 is only if the stations are in the centre of opposing bus directions, and the buses run in the same direction as traffic on the side of the road they are on.. Looks like they are trying to run it simarly to how the B-line runs in Richmond (in which case i agree with urban rail that the bus in the graphic is facing the wrong direction.

[Mike K.]

The busway website has been updated > http://bctransit.com... ... efault.cfm

[Galvanized]

^Thanks for the update.

Here's an example of Douglas/Bay I found on the site. THe new plan is in bold.

[aastra]

These stops in the middle of the street make Douglas Street seem cozier, which is good. Which reminds me, isn't there a huge empty lot on the street where the old dive shop was (before the recent fire)? Did I imagine that?

I'd love to see stuff start happening around there.

[G-Man]

I agree. Still think passengers will have difficulty with the buses as shown in that picture. Particularily when offloading.

[gumgum]

I think this is a step in the right direction. But I'm concerned about non-bus left turns and probably longer traffic-light wait times. This is a stretch that will suffer severely from that.

[VicHockeyFan]

Busway plan update available at City Hall
Times Colonist
Published: Tuesday, June 05, 2007

Those interested in B.C. Transit's plans to build a busway down the middle of Douglas Street can get an update of the project today at Victoria City Hall.

Planners will provide information on the project at a Bus Rapid Transit open house from 3 p.m. to 6 p.m. in the City Hall antechamber.

Information gathered from the open house will be used to help develop a detailed assessment of station location options.

Font: ****Business owners along the route are meeting with transit tomorrow.

[VicHockeyFan]

Douglas Street business owners reject transit plan
Darron Kloster, Times Colonist
Published: Thursday, June 07, 2007
Business owners along Douglas Street gave the collective cold shoulder yesterday to a proposal by B.C. Transit to redevelop Victoria's main drag into bus-friendly thoroughfare.

"It makes a gorgeous facility for B.C. Transit, but it does nothing but hurt my business," Randy Northey, owner of the Pantry Restaurant, told transit officials during an open house for business owners.

More than 50 property owners along Douglas Street were scheduled to speak but many more pored over the plans and gave B.C. Transit spokesman Mike Davis a grilling over the course of the day.

With the blessings of Victoria, Saanich and other municipalities, Transit wants to spent $6 million to put bus lanes down the centre of Douglas Street as a first step in laying a backbone for a future light rapid transit system.

The plan calls for the elimination of many left-hand turns -- which lit a fuse under most business owners -- and the creation of centre-lane bus stations at Bay Street, Finlayson Street and Saanich Road, as well as new crosswalks, signalling and bike lanes that will eat into the boulevards one to three metres in many areas along the route.

"We employ a lot of people. We keep people shopping at home. You take access to our business away, we'll lose half our customers and be put out of business," said Linda Sheppard, who owns Dreamland Kids, across from Mayfair mall.

What galled most business owners, however, was the fact that the centre lanes would be used only for express buses en route to the West Shore, Sooke and Sidney. The remaining four lanes for automobile traffic would also include transit buses feeding other routes from Douglas Street.

That left a lot of questions on whether traffic would only get worse along the corridor.

"To me it seems like a lot of real estate and a lot of changes just to get a few commuters home quicker," said Jim Carson, who owns two automobile dealerships along Douglas Street.

Business people also questioned the decision to use Douglas Street, when Blanshard -- which runs parallel -- is much wider and could accommodate the new centre-lane design with less construction disruption.

There is also the loss of street parking, particularly in the Victoria portion of Douglas, that some business owners said would deplete sales by as much as 50 per cent.

Businesses also voiced concerns over the construction process, saying they didn't want another Cambie Street in Vancouver, where businesses are closing due to the drawn-out construction of the RAV line.

Transit said construction of the new corridor would begin in the winter of 2008 in phases. There will be some delays but no road closures, with the service launched in summer 2009.

Davis said Transit is in the early stages of the proposal and expected a lively debate with the business community.

He said some U-turns will be allowed at intersections to improve access and work is already being done to produce angle-parking on side streets.

The costs could escalate as hydro lines may have to be buried, admitted Davis.

Details of the plan are available online at http://www.bctransit.com.

[aastra]

...as well as new crosswalks, signalling and bike lanes that will eat into the boulevards one to three metres in many areas along the route.

Widening the street would be a big mistake.

The guy is right. If the bus lane is only going to be used by a few express buses to Langford then Blanshard Street is the more sensible place for it. Blanshard is wide, it's the realm of the car, and there are no small businesses along it that would suffer. Blanshard is basically Victoria's urban freeway.

I still hold out hope for the Douglas Street strip, despite all of the mistakes they've made and continue to make with it.

[VicHockeyFan]

Ya, I'm beginning to think this is real dumb. I mean, what is futre rapid transit going to serve? There is not going to be 10s of thousands of more people that must commute downtown every day. Downtown, unless it gets some new office towers, is not expanding business-wise very much if you ask me.

[G-Man]

I disagree with both of you.

Why not Blanshard:

The reason that Douglas was chosen over Blanshard is that this is not just for express buses but instead an actual rapid transit line. A Blanshard routing does not serve anyone but commuters whereas the Douglas Routing will allow for quick connections from Downtown to Mayfair and T&C Mall. In addition, the Douglas routing connects was a larger amount of undeveloped parking lots that will allow for more TODs.

Why we need this:

This will provide the first spike of real rapid transit. This will be used if you look at the plan on the website the end goal is 3 minute service along the corridor and five minute service to the westcomms and 10 minute service to Pennisula and University. There will be buses on this thing all the time.

Forget about Langford though the place this will have the biggest impact will be Mayfair and areas inbetween. We may actually get an uptown out of this.

To throw the whole thing aside for some businesses that are worried about a truly minor amount of parking would be a grave mistake and I hope that their issues will be ignored. As we saw on Tuesday night Vancouver is seeing a yearly decrease in total vehicle movements as the city densifies so they may lose driving customers but as the projects go up around the stations we will see more people walking to their shops.

I have seen some great centre street BRT in South America and as long as it is done well this will be a great bonus to the city.

[aastra]

The reason that Douglas was chosen over Blanshard is that this is not just for express buses but instead an actual rapid transit line.

But in the article they say people were miffed at "the fact that the centre lanes would be used only for express buses en route to the West Shore, Sooke and Sidney."

My concern is that they'll widen Douglas, stick rapid buses down the middle, keep local buses in the regular lanes, and continue to build auto-oriented developments (like the drive-thru Starbucks and the Superstore) on the sides.

With the pace at which things happen in Victoria, how long will it take to go from express buses to LRT? And then how long will it take after that for the Douglas Street milieu to start de-emphasizing the auto?

What they should have done is inserted a short, fast LRT line down the middle of Douglas, from the conference centre to Town & Country (or even just to Mayfair). And they should have phased out buses on Douglas altogether once the LRT was in place. That would have been a good pilot project. If the short line works then you can seriously start thinking about the logical extensions to UVic and Langford. If it doesn't work, then you're stuck with a short LRT line in the heart of the city. There are no serious potential negatives (except the price tag, of course, and the impact of construction on some of the businesses along the route).

[m0nkyman]

BRT is a way to not actually institute rapid transit. It's a bad idea.

[G-Man]

Aastra you are right they should have done that and if our transit in Victoria got the kind of funding that Translink got then that would have worked but it we don't . So Transit is doing the best we can do with the money we have. I agree LRT is better but this is what is proposed. The business owners are incorrect in their assertion that it will only be express buses unless they mean that BRT is an express bus and not what I consider an express bus being the morning and afternoon commuter runs. Yes buses will still run on the other side lanes but not to the same degree they currently do. These people have obviously not read the plan. It will be full BRT along Douglas on opening in 2009 with extension lines to UVic and Swartz branching off at T&C mall a coupl e of years after.

If it was LRT instead it would still cut off the businesses from their precious street parking, busses would still go along the regular lanes and they would still be *****in so nothing has changed.

[hungryryno]

If anyone has been over to Richmond lately the 98 B-Line, which is a BRT route, runs down the middle of No. 3 Road. Local services still remain "on the curb" and there are stations at intermediate distances that connect with the BRT. This system works great and it actually brought forward a nice beautification project to No. 3 Road.

Douglas Street is very similar to No. 3 Road in Richmond; there are many businesses that were affected, just like here on Douglas. But, the fact that more people are moving faster has brought more customers to the area. With all the big boxes is Langford already there is not a reason to come to Downtown Victoria other than work, especially with traffic problems. With the BRT on Douglas Street more people might come back to Downtown to shop, and use the new Rapid Bus program being proposed!

Unfortunately, with the construction of the Canada Line to Richmond, this BRT line did not last its full life. IT DID WORK!

The only thing that concerns me is safety. Douglas Street does not have a lot of room to expand and the new BRT lanes down the middle definately need to be seperated from the regular lanes, even if it is just a thin medal fence, to prevent pedestrians from running across traffic and traffic from turning left in front of a speeding bus.

I think we need to give it a chance.

[VicHockeyFan]

Someone just called the bar representing a "concerned group of businesses" and asking my thoughts on the bus lanes. They probably ran into the most-informed person she had spoken too yet as she was very surprised by what I knew. Anyway, I gave her this website.

She was a volunteer just representing the group, not sure what the groups take is. I told her Douglas, smouglas, we do our business off Caledonia (our address is Douglas though).

[G-Man]

^^If your business is so average that people will not plan their route to your store beyond deciding to left turn across Douglas then perhaps you need to look at your business model.

People that run crappy businesses are always finding scapegoats. Oh its the traffic laws. It is the neighbours complaining. No its your cheapass business!

[hungryryno]

I have trouble sympathizing for businesses along Douglas Street who are complaining of losing valuable parking space with the construction of the busway project. It doesn't matter if the busway goes ahead, or if transit realized it would be better having curbside bus lanes. Either way parking is going to disappear. It was bound to happen at some point in time, with the city growing it is the only way to increase capacity without expanding the size of roads.

Maybe they are simply "afraid of change", to take from Captain Kirk in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.