3355 replies to this topic

[aastra]

The JBNEA would love something like that, no doubt.

[Holden West]

Looks like we need not worry about what gets built at Ogden Point--global warming solves that problem!

http://flood.firetre...0,-123.3624&z=3

[D.L.]

I love how every Tom, Dick and Harry on this forum think that they know what's best for everything. I bet you guys despise agricultural land reserves.

[G-Man]

Actually I think that the ALR is one of the best things for our city and our province. I am also a strong believer in Urban Containment Boundaries.

[gumgum]

Forget Tom, Dick and Harry.
ONLY I know best!

[zoomer]

Yup, I totally agree with G-Man's comments wrt ALR and urban containment boundaries.

Dylan, it's just about having an opinion, doesn't mean we're right or wrong. Sometimes the Powers That Be make silly decisions and it's ok to point that out. On the other hand I'm sure at times we can come across as naive and uninformed about the complexities of a particular topic, but in that case you, or anyone can chip in their two cents and we can have a good debate.

Yes, perhaps we think too alike here, and it would be nice to have more opposing views...on the otherhand, maybe we're all brilliant city planners in waiting...!!

[zoomer]

BTW, the Ogden Point site is [Derek Zoolander voice] a ridiculously small site [/Derek Zoolander voice] for a container port! Seriously, look at it!

So, lets see, maybe this "container port" idea would employ at most.. 50-100 people? They obviously can't even use the full site as part of it still needs to be used for cruise ships.

Meanwhile, a potential convention centre, hotel, services, possible residential construction would employ several hundred employees, not to mention bring in millions more dollars per year.

[G-Man]

Too true plus there is no reason a facility like that could not be built at Esquimalt harbour.

[gumgum]

Even if there was a container port there, how the heck would they transport the goods out of that area of town? Anybody that's lived in JB realises what a pain it is to get anywhere.

[G-Man]

The containers would never leave the site they would just be moved to a different ship. Still these operations are usually 24 hours so I am sure that this would be much more of a disturbance than pretty much anything else.

[gumgum]

Really?
I thought that they leave Vancouver's port.

[Holden West]

Count me as an ALR/UCB supporter!

Hey, we're just brainstorming ideas...

This whole port thing is a ploy to keep things as they are. Noise, space, location all add up to a lousy justification for a container port. The head of the Harbour Authority loves all that blacktop--not necessarily because they use it but because its preservation will protect against development encroaching on his operations.

[G-Man]

I also think that there is some back door dealing/back stabbing between the city and the authority here.

GVHA: You are going to limit our building height to 10m? WE are going to keep this eyesore here in perpetuity.

[Mike K.]

^hmmm...good point G-man.

[aastra]

Is it just me or does Tom not post much anymore?

[Scaper]

I don't know, but your starting to push on my last nerve....so watch out... :twisted:

[G-Man]

Who's Tom?

[Scaper]

You know...Tom!!! He's the guy behind the scenes 8) ......shhhh!!! don't tell anyone though!

[Ms. B. Havin]

There were some additional articles about port development in BC recently, so I'm pulling this thread out of mothballs (it creates a parallel with the one that gumgum also started today, but that's ok -- and besides, I'm off on a tangent anyway). First, a recap of an editorial Derf posted on Sept.28:

Op-ed from the TC:

Ogden Point is our sea link
But port could co-exist with other facilities in our window on the shipping world

Ogden Point is not glaringly attractive, but it makes a considerable contribution to Victoria’s economy.
Right now, it’s basically a place where big ships tie up, and there is a vast parking lot for those who want to see the cruise ships or board the helijet. Looking after boats requires a lot of clutter. Cables are all over the place, and there’s a warehouse full of fibreoptic ones.
When construction on the first piers was started in 1913, the idea was that the construction of the Panama Canal would produce a boom in shipping for Victoria. It didn’t, and for years the place was little more than a lumber yard for visiting ships.
“Four foreign ships load at Ogden Point,” proclaimed a Colonist headline in the mid-1950s, because by then, other stuff was being exported besides wood. But it wasn’t until the cruise ships started coming that the Point was made.
Though James Bay residents might grumble about the traffic, the cruise ships have served us, as we’ve served them, well. And even if the cruise traffic is diverted in future, the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority has decided that Ogden Point must remain, essentially, a port.
The authority says there’s room for a little marine-oriented light industry along the Dallas Road fringes, but turning it into a tourist zone with residential development is out of the question.
As part of the agreement in 2002 under which the GVHA took over Ogden Point from Transport Canada, the authority qualifies for $2.8 million from the federal government for repair and upkeep of the piers. Some underwater sections need repair right now, and the federal money is going to be needed to help pay for repairs in the future.
The Harbour Authority is unconvinced there is room for anything much more than what already exists at the Point. It warns that the cruise-ship business is shifty and the big ships might not come forever. Besides, the authority says, the ground underneath the parking lot is so contaminated that it has to remain capped.
That might be. But there are always reasons not to change what is. It takes visionaries to dream what might be.
Victoria is a maritime city — and an intensely cultural one. Cruise ships and other industries come and go, but culture and heritage stay. Right now, there is little sign of that part of our patrimony on the waterfront that is so central to who we are.
At one time, Sydney’s famous Opera House was just a dream. In the three decades since its completion, it has become synonymous with that city and is giving the kangaroo a run for its money as a national symbol for Australia — a symbol that emphasizes culture, not critters.
Maybe the Harbour Authority is correct and Ogden Point is not the right place. But time is running out for Victoria to make a place for culture on the edge of the sea that defines us as a city.

Aside from the very pertinent bit about Victoria being a maritime city, and that having a "patrimony on the waterfront ...is so central to who we are," I'm wondering (again!) how Victoria can benefit from the federal & provincial initiative to beef up BC's ports in anticipation of increased container cargo trade with China.

I had mentioned the "Asia Pacific gateway and corridor initiative" on this thread earlier -- recall the Oct.12th article, [url=http://english.people.com.cn/200610/12/eng20061012_311038.html:26bd8]Canada to upgrade Pacific ports for closer trade ties with Asia[/url:26bd8], from whence come the immortal lines: "Canada should be the crossroads between the massive engine of the United States and the burgeoning economies of Asia," Harper said.

The same article also states: Harper said a high-traffic management system will be developed for the Lower Mainland in British Columbia to move containers into and out of port terminals faster and more efficiently.

Total container throughput is projected to rise from 2 million a year today to 7 million by 2020, Harper said.)

G-Man mused that although Victoria can't freight out the containers (we have no RR, we're on an island), we could be a transfer point, "a container load / unload facility," as he put it.

I'm still intrigued by this idea of exploding trade with Asia, and by the fact that Victoria sort of sits on the sidelines, with Vancouver (and Prince Rupert) getting all the action.

Today there's an article in the Vancouver Sun's Business section, [url=http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=1719671b-6b18-46a6-bf99-c4dfeabee836:26bd8]Extreme makeover for West Coast waterfront[/url:26bd8], which again focuses on Prince Rupert & Vancouver. Victoria isn't mentioned. The article starts this way:

There will be more action than talk this year about port expansions in British Columbia.

The Port of Prince Rupert is racing to complete its container facility and the Port of Vancouver just awarded a $195-million contract to build the third berth at its Deltaport container terminal.

And Kitimat LNG, the $600-million scheme to import liquefied natural gas at Kitimat, won its federal and provincial environmental approvals, which could pave the way for a 2007 start for its project.

In all, the projects add up to an extreme makeover of the West Coast waterfront, just as the B.C. construction sector is hitting record levels of employment.

Prince Rupert is buzzing, getting a brand new rail line, too: "Rail lines are being built to the terminal, which is being converted to container handling, the terminal surface is being strengthened, administration and maintenance buildings are being constructed along with a water treatment plant." The article ends:

Deltaport already moves more containers per crane and puts through more containers per hectare of facility space than any port in North America, he said. But the flood of trade from Asia just keeps rising.

"There's only so much more we can do to get us through the next two years," he said.

Stark noted that the Yantian container terminal at the mouth of the Yangtze River in China is planning to build 52 terminals in total capable of moving 26 million TEUs per year.

"And that's just one terminal," Stark said.

The Port of Vancouver can currently handle 2.3 million TEUs per year and, with planned expansions, will move five million containers by 2010.

"I don't see [Asian trade] as a pipeline," Stark said. "I see it as a funnel, and we're the narrow end."

Can't Victoria get in on some of this action -- anyone have any ideas? Would using Esquimalt Harbour for a kind of turn-around facility be useful in terms of economic activity/ jobs? Would freight rail from Esquimalt to Nanaimo do any good? (I guess not, unless we had a fixed-link RR bridge from Nanaimo to the mainland....) Is there a service-related (financial, processing) product that generates overall benefits for the host community, but doesn't entail having any cargo traffic activity here?

What sorts of work-related activities do cargo ports generate, anyway -- aside from the initial construction and the actual off-loading and so on? They must spin off a whole bunch of other businesses, services?

[renthefinn]

Build a 4 billion dollar bridge(2 billion at past government forcasts, 4 billion is my optiministic projection at the time of construction!).