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[Marine] Victoria cruise ship industry | Breakwater District/Ogden Point | News / issues


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#61 m0nkyman

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 07:13 PM

Can't Victoria get in on some of this action -- anyone have any ideas?

Fast break downs to smaller ships for split runs to Canada/US. There are a few Chinese exports that can't go into the states, so doing a break down here and having a smaller ship go straight to Seattle, and another to Van might be a money making proposition. The key would be making it fast. That means investing serious coin, along the lines of 200$million or more for a modern port facility.

It's, how should I put this, unlikely to happen. And that's putting it in the kindest possible language.

#62 ressen

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 07:02 PM

Ports operate 24/7 with lots of noise. The neighbours might object.

#63 renthefinn

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 10:58 PM

^Well then they shouldn't have moved next to a port!

#64 zoomer

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 10:00 PM

Below are the renderings for a proposed redevelopment in Dartmouth, which include a 30 storey condo (although the Halifax folks on SSP seem to doubt it'll go through at that height).







Anyways, it's an amazingly similar piece of property to Ogden Point, except I can't imagine putting a 30 storey condo right on the very edge of Ogden Point!

more about it on this SSP page

http://forum.skyscra... ... 08&page=22

Development 'will bring new life to Dartmouth'
Public gets a look at consultants' latest plan for waterfront King's Wharf complex

ROBYN YOUNG
The Daily News

Dartmouth Cove could soon be home to a new world-class development including condos, restaurants and retail space.

Environmental Design and Management, consultants to Francis Fares of Fares Real Estate, which owns the old Irving Marine Slips property, led a public workshop about the project yesterday afternoon and evening.

Fares invited the community to share ideas for the site and ask questions about the proposed development.

One Dartmouth resident at the meeting thinks the project would be a step in the right direction.

"Dartmouth has been stagnant for 50 years or so," Maurice Muise said.

"This will bring new life to Dartmouth."

Muise and his wife, Lucy Muise, said young people keep leaving Dartmouth and Halifax for newer, more exciting places and opportunities, and it's time for HRM to start bringing them back.

Margot Young of Environmental Design and Management shared a slide show picturing the possible layout of King's Wharf to an audience of about 80 people at Alderney Gate Public Library last night.

The 80,000-square-foot wharf area is designed to be a pedestrian-friendly space combining cafes, shops, 1,200 condominium units, a hotel and boardwalk.

Young said the project would require infilling of areas around the slips to straighten out the sea wall.

The buildings in the wharf would create an organic "hill-shape form," including taller buildings and shorter buildings, said Young.

"The tall buildings will be slender, elegant and light," she said of the primarily glass structures around the outside of the property.

One of the slender glass buildings, at the tip of the cove, would be 30 storeys high.

Another building, the Gatehouse building, will be low, made of masonry stone and modelled after Historic Properties in Halifax.

Not everyone at last night's presentation was happy about the idea.

Frances Howard, who has lived in Dartmouth with her husband Tom Howard for 30 years, said the project would give the area the highest density and tallest buildings in all of HRM.

She's worried about the congestion the new project would create.

"They're very evasive about the numbers and parking and cars," Howard said.

"We moved here for peace," she added.

But Muise thinks people who don't like the idea should just move out.

"Anybody that opposes this project should put a For Sale sign up and move to the country," he said.

Fares Real Estate originally unveiled the Dartmouth Cove plan in February 2006, taking suggestions and ideas from the public.

The 2006 plan was reworked after public input, and this is the company's second time through the process.

David Lane, of HRM Community Development Planning Applications, said the proposal is just an application at this time.

The proposal will be brought forward to the public in a formal meeting in early September, he said.

"There's an interest in doing something different there," Lane said.

ryoung@hfxnews.ca



#65 Holden West

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 10:35 PM

Dartmouth goes Dubai!
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#66 zoomer

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 10:42 PM

/\ haha! Actually after Ogden Point, the Burj al Arab was the second thing that popped into my mind! I guess we could call it the Penis in the Pond...?

#67 G-Man

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 09:57 AM

After seeing those previous pics this news will be underwhelming to say the least:

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/business/story.html?id=f91101fb-b37f-4f5a-97ba-e0d431995f21

Ogden Point ready to undergo a facelift
Work will begin after the last cruise ship departs on Nov. 3
Carla Wilson, Times Colonist
Published: Saturday, October 27, 2007
When hundreds of thousands of cruise-ship visitors arrive next year, they'll see a whole new Ogden Point.

Underwater work to bolster the pier and a paint job for the terminals that includes images of Victoria landmarks are planned for the site.

As soon as the final cruise ship of the season pulls out on Nov. 3, Fraser River Pile and Dredge Ltd. will start foundation work on the pier, Paul Servos, Greater Victoria Harbour Authority general manager, said yesterday.

That project will cost just over $1 million.

Two more cruise-ship visits are scheduled to dock at Ogden Point, on Oct. 31 and Nov. 3.

When the Mercury departs in early November, it will mark the end of a 163-visit season that began when the first ship pulled in April 24. Those visits delivered 340,000 passengers and 100,000 crew members, pumping an estimated $38 million into the area, Servos said.

Add in five refits worth a total of $60 million at the Esquimalt Graving Dock, plus other services such as repairs, bus drivers and other spinoffs, and the total economic impact reaches $240 million this year, Servos said.

[snip]

Work has already started on the two-phase $340,000 makeover, which will see buildings painted in traditional steamship colours of red, black and grey. Photographic images on plastic will be attached to huge warehouse doors, including scenes of Chinatown, Butchart Gardens, historical ships, the legislative buildings, Craigdarroch Castle and the harbour authority's logo of killer whales.

New banners will show images of whales and nautical themes. Signs and lettering are being freshened up and lamp standards will be painted. More landscaping and improved security are also planned. Work is expected to be finished by May.

[snip]

Passengers already consider Ogden Point one of the best cruise-ship terminals in North America because it is clean, safe, not cluttered and has an efficient transportation system, he said.

With the improvements, the facility will be the "number one cruise terminal in the world, in terms of appearance and function," Servos said.


Cruise companies have already made bookings for 2008 but their schedules are confidential for now, said Servos, who is anticipating another strong season.

[snip]

© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007

Are we joking here the number one terminal in the world? Perhaps if there was something to do there and there was LRT to downtown but as is NO WAY the place is embarassing!

Anyways paper copy had a mock up of the pictures and it looks awful it is typical Victoria postcard shite with the quarry at Butchart Gardens.

Also wondering how people would feel about moving this to infrastructure as it is more relevant there methinks...

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#68 Mike K.

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 01:20 PM

Have our reps never left the Island to check out Canada Place in Vancouver or the cruise facilities in Seattle?

What a load of crock. That line should have read Even with the improvements, the facility will still be regarded as the "number one worst cruise terminal in the world, in terms of appearance and function," Servos said.

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#69 m0nkyman

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 01:39 PM

How is a parking lot with no amenities even pretending to be anywhere near the top 90% of terminals in the world?

#70 G-Man

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 02:21 PM

In my opinion the terminal is doing well despite itself. It is just because Victoria is such a draw that anyone would even think about getting off the boat after seeing the terminal.

To be honest it would take much to make it truly a decent facility even under the current 4 storey height retriction placed on it by the city. Perhps keep half th eparking for now and turn half into 4 storey commercial buildings with ground floor restaurants shops and pubs. It would pay for itself and turn what is currently an eyesore into a commercial and business hotspot for the city. I mean depite the mediocre service at the current cafe it still does crazy business.

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#71 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 09:22 PM

Articles like that one ([url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/business/story.html?id=f91101fb-b37f-4f5a-97ba-e0d431995f21:30472]Ogden Point ready to undergo a facelift[/url:30472]) make my dentist happy: they make me grind my teeth down.

"World class"... god, it's sad, isn't it? You guys already addressed it very well. To talk of a paint job and plastic signs that cost $1m as worthy of a "world class" facility is beyond laughable.

Why is Victoria so effing hand-me-down lowlife cheap???

Why is everything here done on the cheap, for as little money as possible -- albeit with the intent of extracting the maximum amount for some people? It gets back to what was described in that article [url=http://www.vibrantvictoria.ca/articles/0006_1.htm:30472]Under-building: A Victoria tradition[/url:30472] by Thomas Guerrero, doesn't it? And our silly media play right along, never asking critical questions. Mind-boggling....

I think it has something to do with a particularly vicious sort of frontier/ new world mentality. I say that because when you look at the churches -- and I'm no friend of theirs, since I'm neither religious nor spiritual, I say this merely as an observer -- when you look at the churches, you see that they considered themselves in it for the long-haul and for "the good of the community" (never mind that some of us wouldn't have agreed with their conception of good). Look at St. Ann's or Christ Church Cathedral or any of the other churches: they weren't built on the cheap, with some weird colour scheme designed to evoke ships, er, god, or with plastic signs advertising religion, er, the city. And for whatever reason, Victoria was lucky enough to have someone like Rattenbury around, who for personal and whatever reasons wanted to make his mark, and it happened to be in Victoria. So we have the Legislature and the Empress. But so much of what was done besides that has been based on the formula of quick profit extraction, with very little concern for sustainability or for building something for the city that would last.

This is a totally retarded attitude in the 21st century. If we live in what some have called [url=http://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Theater-Every-Business/dp/0875848192/ref=sr_1_1/104-6569833-0127153?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193548575&sr=8-1:30472]The Experience Economy[/url:30472], then it makes sense to focus on authentic experiences. And those require some real money, not just a plastic sign that shows a plastic picture of a plastic attraction. You can go anywhere for plastic. If you want people to come here, and have them keep coming here -- and the repeat tourist is likely to spend more money -- then give people something authentic. Don't give 'em crap.

Oh, and while you're at it: consider that the locals might want some quality, too. Something a bit better than a tarted up paint job and some plastic signs.

World-class, my what's-it. What a joke.
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#72 zoomer

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 08:55 AM

/\ exactly..

Paul Servos should resign his position because of that World Class comment.

Who can take the guy seriously anymore, except Tourism Victoria and City Hall no doubt? Yup, 900 million spent on a second terminal
in Vancouver, but 1 million will make ours number one in the world in terms of appearance and function.

:rolleyes:

#73 aastra

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 02:43 PM

Passengers already consider Ogden Point one of the best cruise-ship terminals in North America because it is clean, safe, not cluttered and has an efficient transportation system, he said.

With the improvements, the facility will be the "number one cruise terminal in the world, in terms of appearance and function," Servos said.


Seriously, this is an absolutely appalling misrepresentation of reality. The situation at Ogden Point is shameful, as anybody who's ever been anywhere knows. Clean? Why wouldn't it be clean? It's an empty parking lot. Safe? Why wouldn't it be safe? It's an empty parking lot. Not cluttered? Why would it be cluttered? It's an empty parking lot. Efficient transportation system? So taxicabs and shuttle buses pile in there whenever ships are in town. Big whoop.

Also, I'm so sick of this idea that the vast parking lot at Ogden Point must be preserved to protect its hypothetical future industrial potential. Reality: the James Bay crowd would never again allow any form of moderately intense industrial activity on that site so we can all stop dreaming about it.

Work has already started on the two-phase $340,000 makeover, which will see buildings painted in traditional steamship colours of red, black and grey. Photographic images on plastic will be attached to huge warehouse doors, including scenes of Chinatown, Butchart Gardens, historical ships, the legislative buildings, Craigdarroch Castle and the harbour authority's logo of killer whales.


This is pure tourist trap guff. You might as well set up a bunch of billboards.

 

edit looking back in 2019: Maybe I was overly harsh but you get my point. Anyway, they finally seem to be on track to do something about it.


Edited by aastra, 10 September 2019 - 05:16 PM.


#74 ķǽ ơħ

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 05:13 PM

This is such a waste of space. With cruise ship numbers increaing every year I think its time we develop a plan that suits the needs of the city and surrounding area. Nobody wants to be greeted by an empty parking lot. I know I read about a proposal and the renderings looked really good....its time the city looked forwards instead of back.

#75 Phil McAvity

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 12:24 AM

Every year it seems Victoria gets a few more cruise ships visiting and this year's lineup includes some very impressive vessels. There are nine cruise ships this year that exceed 950 feet long yet not one of them exceeds 1000 feet. In fact, I can't recall any ship over 1000 feet long every docking here. I know that we have hosted American aircraft carriers that exceeded 1000 feet long but they anchored offshore.

Am I the only one that has noticed this and thought it odd?
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#76 Holden West

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 06:47 AM

We had one last year. Operators keep their biggest ships for the popular Caribbean/Atlantic runs, kind of like how BC Ferries uses its biggest ships on the Swartz Bay-Tswsawasawssen crossing. I bet we will see more as the average size of cruise ships keeps increasing to almost comical sizes. The "Love Boat" Princess ships of our youth seem like little shrimps compared to those monsters.

Cruise ship season starts today

The dolphin is 70 metres off [Ogden Point's] Pier B, with a catwalk connecting it to the 243-metre-long pier. It was built to accommodate larger ships. Now that it is installed, two ships of up to 335 metres [1,099 feet] each can tie up at the same time. Last year, the largest ship that arrived was 310 metres [1017 feet] long.

Edit: here is a 310 meter building for comparison.
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#77 sebberry

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 07:56 AM

How I would love to see Oasis of the Seas show up here. Or better yet, the look on James Bay residents faces when the massive ship blocks the sun :P

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#78 Phil McAvity

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 09:47 AM

^I never really realized how big "Oasis of the Seas" was until I was watching a TV show on it and saw it docked alongside some other cruise ships and it just dwarfed them. Not the clearest picture but this should give you some idea of what i'm saying:



http://www.travelser...011565&go=older

Keep in mind though that the other ship in the picture is merely 85,000 tons and 960 feet long which is about the same size as the biggest ships that come to Victoria. :eek:

We had one last year.

"The dolphin is 70 metres off [Ogden Point's] Pier B, with a catwalk connecting it to the 243-metre-long pier. It was built to accommodate larger ships. Now that it is installed, two ships of up to 335 metres [1,099 feet] each can tie up at the same time. Last year, the largest ship that arrived was 310 metres [1017 feet] long."


I'd love to know what ship that was because i've never seen, read or heard of a 1000 footer tieing up here and since I follow this stuff I strongly suspect that is just more journalistic incompetence. I also didn't understand what that "dolphin" was that they were talking about.
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#79 sebberry

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 09:55 AM

I'd love to know what ship that was because i've never seen, read or heard of a 1000 footer tieing up here. I strongly suspect that is just more journalistic incompetence. I also didn't understand what that "dolphin" was that they were talking about.


I look at the cruise ship schedule each year and I don't recall anything over 971' or something like that docking up here last year.

The dolphin looks like a tiny little oil rig in the water where longer ships can tie up to. Couple hundred feet or so from the pier?

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#80 Phil McAvity

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 10:08 AM

Yeah, 971 feet is the biggest i've ever read too, so here's to the writer of that article: :rolleyes:.

I'm still confused about why longer ships would need the "dolphin" since the vast majority of the ship would be tied to the docks anyway with just the end (or bow) sticking out. :confused: Those ships use a lot of rope when they tie up.
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