588 replies to this topic

[rjag]

Highly educated foreigners who want to become permanent residents are precisely the type of immigrants we should be striving to attract.

 

I like what was proposed in the US, every PhD should come with a Green Card. The same should apply in Canada

[AllseeingEye]

Don't think the trend of wealthy foreign students is particularly new. In my experience there was always a high proportion of monied foreign students at UVic; in our time it was the Iranians, usually the upper middle class (and higher) crust, who'd fled from Khomeini's Revolution in 1979. Several of them hung out in our group - great people - but they never ever pretended to be your typical, "perpetually broke and working two job" students like the rest of us.

 

Most of that crew came from displaced, uber-wealthy Tehran families who had fled with their cheque books and were on parental "allowances" of as much as $3k/month ('clear' - it was spending cash for social and other activities only, their education and living costs naturally all paid for separately by the parents) - and this was back in 1981. These 19-20 year old students were driving high end Porsche's, Beemers and Mercedes Benz' years before those cars became commonplace around town.

[spanky123]

Right, so while we blame a handful of rich foreigners buying condos for our housing situation, we have literally thousands of units rented to international students (who are highly profitable to the Universities). So why aren't we pushing more at that pressure point if we want to address housing affordability. *Those* are the units that might actually provide affordable housing, while the high-end condo units are aimed at another market entirely.

 

Don't forget that it is the CoV taxpayer who paid for, and the Mayor of Victoria who organized two trips to China to recruit even more students and foreign buyers. Look at who accompanied her on the trip.

 

We want foreign money but we don't want the obligations that come with it.

[spanky123]

Don't think the trend of wealthy foreign students is particularly new. In my experience there was always a high proportion of monied foreign students at UVic; in our time it was the Iranians, usually the upper middle class (and higher) crust, who'd fled from Khomeini's Revolution in 1979. Several of them hung out in our group - great people - but they never ever pretended to be your typical, "perpetually broke and working two job" students like the rest of us.

 

Most of that crew came from displaced, uber-wealthy Tehran families who had fled with their cheque books and were on parental "allowances" of as much as $3k/month ('clear' - it was spending cash for social and other activities only, their education and living costs naturally all paid for separately by the parents) - and this was back in 1981. These 19-20 year old students were driving high end Porsche's, Beemers and Mercedes Benz' years before those cars became commonplace around town.

 

75% of UVIC students are from outside of Victoria. I have been told that in some courses over 50% of the students are international. We have always had foreign students but I don't think that the percentages have been that high.

[AllseeingEye]

75% of UVIC students are from outside of Victoria. I have been told that in some courses over 50% of the students are international. We have always had foreign students but I don't think that the percentages have been that high.

Uvic at least back to the late 70's and 80's always had high percentage of non-Victoria students, likely not 75% in 1982 but certainly higher than 50%; aside from Iranians there were lots of Taiwanese and as mainland China was starting to open up post-Mao, we saw the first mainland-born Chinese students as well as a significant proportion of Americans. In fact a surprisingly high percent of the staff and specifically the professors were US born and trained. At least two of mine - highly respected on campus and in their respective fields (History and Political Science) - were Vietnam-era draft dodgers.

[Jackerbie]

75% of UVIC students are from outside of Victoria. I have been told that in some courses over 50% of the students are international. We have always had foreign students but I don't think that the percentages have been that high.

 

Highly dependant on the program. International students account for 18% of UVic enrollment, i.e. just under 4,000 students.

[Casual Kev]

I like what was proposed in the US, every PhD should come with a Green Card. The same should apply in Canada

 

The problem with formalizing this approach is that doctorates become a literal path to citizenship, so you'd most likely have a vast array of institutions coming up with softball programs whose primary purpose would be to serve as a PR assembly line - which kind of happens already at the undergraduate level through lesser known colleges. PhDs already score highly in the points system and often come with other attributes to help them get over the threshold, but it could be a problem if we were to lay the carpet for those who may have the certification but not really check any other box.

[amor de cosmos]

Internationally known Ocean Networks Canada, based at the University of Victoria, has settled into a refurbished building at the six-hectare Queenswood property on Arbutus Road.

ONC operates two underwater cable systems off Vancouver Island and others in the Arctic and Atlantic that collect an array of long-term continuous data, including information on seismic activity.

At the building’s official opening Thursday, federal Fisheries Minister Jonathan Wilkinson committed $12.6 million over the next four years to allow ONC to pursue projects such as monitoring factors that affect endangered southern resident killer whales. Researchers put their population at 74.

Wilkinson said that gaining a better sense of how noise is affecting the whales is a priority.

“An effective strategy to save the whales is urgent. There aren’t that many of the whales left, and as we know from reports just a couple of weeks ago there are some that are not in great health, largely because they’re not feeding enough.”

The newly revamped site, known as the Ocean-Climate Building, is a former residential-care facility operated by the Sisters of St. Ann before they sold the Queenswood land to UVic in 2010.

The building’s conversion to a research and technology centre cost $9.5 million.

Funding for the project included $5.15 million from UVic, $3.5 million from the federal government and $850,000 from the province.

“It’s going to be a world-leading centre for research that’s going to help us to better manage human activity going forward, related to both climate change and also to marine issues,” Wilkinson said.

More than 200 people work in the 30,000-square-foot building, which is within two kilometres from UVic’s main campus.

https://www.timescol...uvic-1.23591667

[Bob Fugger]

Fun Fact: when the Sisters of St. Ann sold this building to UVic, it was with the understanding that all or part of it would be used as daycare facilities.  I don't know if this was a handshake deal, in the contract or even a covenant.  That never happened, of course, leading to the closure of their after-school care program.

[jasmineshinga]

The building required extensive renovations to make it healthy and workable, a daycare lacks the revenue necessary to make such a renovation fiscally sound, hence the change of use.

 

No idea what sort of arrangement may have been made during the purchase stage... before my time.

[Bob Fugger]

The building required extensive renovations to make it healthy and workable, a daycare lacks the revenue necessary to make such a renovation fiscally sound, hence the change of use.

 

No idea what sort of arrangement may have been made during the purchase stage... before my time.

 

Like a lot of what a university provides, daycare is not provided on a for-profit basis.  Once the ONC came knocking, the administration didn't even look at it.  Nor did it consider refurbishing the perfectly useful Velox building, which has a large playing field and parking.  It is currently being used as storage.  Very, very expensive storage.  Instead, they straight up cancelled the after-school care program.

[Nparker]

This has nothing to do with construction at UVic, but I couldn't find a thread that dealt with student matters. Mods, please move this post if you know of a more appropriate thread.

...A large student protest at a UVic Board of Governors meeting failed to convince enough members to reject a tuition hike for international students. A Student Society spokesman says it means an international student coming into the institution in fall 2019 will be pay an additional 15% this fall, on top of the 20% hike implemented last year. The spokesman, who wishes to be identified simply as Phil, says it effectively creates a 2-tiered tuition system, culling low income international students from the student body...

http://www.iheartrad...vince-1.9037649

For people bright enough to attend post-secondary education, they don't seem to have grasped the basic concept of taxation and education funding. It seems pretty clear to me why international students pay more than domestic students to attend UVic: these folks have never contributed to the tax base that funds the non-tuition portion of post-secondary education. Why should BC/Canadian taxpayers offer a subsidized education to people who have never paid into our funding system? If UVic students are unhappy with the "two-tier" system, then the only alternative I see is to charge domestic students more to cover the international student costs.

Edited by Nparker, 28 March 2019 - 08:07 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

“low income international students” lol.

[AllseeingEye]

I would suggest that "Phil" needs a wake up call; unless the world has changed radically since my UVic-UBC days there is virtually no such thing as low income international students.

 

At UVic in the 80's it was Iranians flooding the campus after fleeing Khomeini's Revolution. To a (wo)man they had more $$$$ than their parents knew what to do with. One became a good friend and part of our coffee gang and was receiving a  $2500/mo 'allowance' from mum and dad who lived in a 10 Mile Point estate. In 1981. That was in addition to the new Mercedes he was driving at the time. He was 21. Nice gig if you can get it. Meanwhile I attended classes full time, played on the rugby team, worked two part time jobs and managed to make enough to buy gas for my ten year old Dodge Charger, lol....

 

Later that decade and into the early 90's at UBC we saw the beginning of the first wave of large numbers of Chinese students, mostly at that time from Hong Kong and Taiwan.

 

That included a chappie in my International Relations grad study group who lived with his 3 siblings, all of them attending the Pt Grey campus, in an 8000 s/f mansion on Pt Grey Rd. With a maid and a cook. Their average age was 24 and of course their parents lived in Hong Kong, flying them all home first class during reading breaks and at Christmas. This was the beginning of what became known as the 'helicopter kids'. Low income international students may exist, but over the better part of a decade across two major universities I never encountered any.

 

Regardless, I very briefly considered doing additional grad or post doctoral work at Kings College in London which would've required selling my car, my dog, my younger sister and taking on a huge loan from the Bank of Mom & Dad: as it should've. Naturally the cost for a foreign student was significantly more than the "regular" tuition which itself was no small number - as it should have been given I had never paid taxes in the UK and potentially would have taken a seat otherwise presumably occupied by a Brit-born student. You want to go to another country and study at one of their institutions? Fine. But then quite rightly you should have to pay for the privilege because that's what it is, a privilege, it is not a 'right'......

Edited by AllseeingEye, 28 March 2019 - 07:39 PM.

[Matt R.]

Looks like uni at a public school in France is pretty affordable for international students!

Matt.

[AllseeingEye]

/\.....France subsidizes higher ed so that is to be expected; the true cost per the French agency charged with promoting higher education is about the same as other EU countries (the ballpark figure is 10,000 Euros/year, or about $15K Cdn), difference being the French government picks up the lion's share of the tab....

Edited by AllseeingEye, 28 March 2019 - 08:30 PM.

[Matt R.]

Yah, nice, hey? Maybe send the kid there for year 3 and 4.

Matt.

[Mike K.]

Ultimately, you get what you pay for.

[jonny]

This has nothing to do with construction at UVic, but I couldn't find a thread that dealt with student matters. Mods, please move this post if you know of a more appropriate thread.

For people bright enough to attend post-secondary education, they don't seem to have grasped the basic concept of taxation and education funding. It seems pretty clear to me why international students pay more than domestic students to attend UVic: these folks have never contributed to the tax base that funds the non-tuition portion of post-secondary education. Why should BC/Canadian taxpayers offer a subsidized education to people who have never paid into our funding system? If UVic students are unhappy with the "two-tier" system, then the only alternative I see is to charge domestic students more to cover the international student costs.

 

This protest is hilarious. 

 

International students should pay through the nose to attend our public schools. When a Canadian goes to a Canadian public institution, like UVIC, they are really only paying ~1/3 of the cost of attending that institution. The remainder is being paid for by the taxpayer. 

[threePs]

This protest is hilarious. 

 

International students should pay through the nose to attend our public schools. When a Canadian goes to a Canadian public institution, like UVIC, they are really only paying ~1/3 of the cost of attending that institution. The remainder is being paid for by the taxpayer. 

 

They already do pay their fair share. While I was at UVic a couple years ago, I was paying around $550/course and my international student friends were paying on average $1700/course. That's more than 3x more which already exceeds the 1/3 argument you made. Adding an additional 20% onto this appears to be highway robbery. They're just going to end up going to cheaper schools if the UVic Senate keeps this up.