310 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

“All 13 mayors have written letters of support, as well as the CRD,” (the colwood mayor) said. “Because we live on an island, there’s a finite amount of land. I really believe that this is the best option.”

 

 

 

 

victoria urban density:  4,027 per square mile

metro density:  1,368 per square mile

vancouver island density:  62 per square mile

 

so about that finite amount of land.  if we filled up the island like victoria is we'd have 48.6 million people on the island.

 

 

manhattan island has 28,000 people per sq. km.  we have 24.8 people per sq. km.

 

and there are 15 more islands more dense than manhattan in the world.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 October 2020 - 09:09 PM.

[Mike K.]

That was an odd comment, for sure. Maybe he meant since we live along the shores of an island with mountains behind us, it’s easier to use the sea.

[Rob Randall]

I thought it was pretty obvious that, like Vancouver, we are partially hemmed in by water and mountains and cannot sprawl like Calgary or Dallas.

 

So thousands of people from all over the Westshore would be driving to the oceanfront from every direction and leaving their car there to catch a ferry?

[max.bravo]

Ya it seems an obvious comment to me as well. In Calgary you could just lay down a new highway across any old farm field and boom, transportation problems solved. Here we are restricted by geography.

[Mike K.]

I think it would be more like bus routes connecting to the port.

The future for the West Shore’s transit investment will include a lot of park and rides, as there’s no way BCT would supply Victoria-level route density outside of Victoria-proper.

[Rob Randall]

Dallas and Minneapolis can just expand until it merges with the next city. The Beltway between NYC and DC just looked like one big urban sprawl to me. But southern island can only sprawl so much before you get too far away from the "mothership". There's simply no other urban anchor.

[Spy Black]

So thousands of people from all over the Westshore would be driving to the oceanfront from every direction and leaving their car there to catch a ferry?

Commuter ferries don't really work unless they're arriving and departing at a terminal that is actually part of a somewhat substantial transit hub.

 

Certainly buses (and perhaps even light rail!) have to arrive/depart from the commuter ferry terminal for it to work properly.

As well, private vehicle parking (at the primary departure end) has to accommodate the expected number of vehicles whose occupants will be making use of the ferry.

 

Just throwing up a couple of little terminals isn't going to serve anybody well ... the entire regional transit map basically has to be redrawn (to a degree) in order to include broad transit access to and from these ferry terminals.

[Rob Randall]

I think it would be more like bus routes connecting to the port.

 

I think if I'm taking the trouble of transferring I'd prefer to just go to the centre of Downtown Langford and continue on, via BRT, forget about boarding some ferry during a fierce winter.

[Rob Randall]

I think we have to FOI to learn what speculative ferry company Mike owns shares in.

[Mike K.]

Royal Bay will include a massive parking facility, if it comes down to it. Think Uptown’s underground.

The entire transit network was to have been re-arranged for rail so a sea-based service would also yield some efficiencies and require more investment into routes heading straight to terminals.

[Rob Randall]

Wouldn't rail be Skytrained above the highway rather than trying to twin the old rail bed along the Goose? In other words, the transit structure is already right there.

Edited by Rob Randall, 05 October 2020 - 06:31 AM.

[Mike K.]

No. That is not the plan anywhere along the route. It is all at-grade, 100% of the way.

[Victoria Watcher]

has anyone actually properly run the number on this boat's speed?  it seems to take the clipper about 15 minutes just to get out of the harbour due to the speed limit.

 

if this thing parks at ship's point you could have buses come right in there but i don't think the city is planning a bus terminal for the waterfront land.  and it's a bit of an uphill hike to walk up to wharf.

 

i suppose it could have shuttle buses that take people quickly up to fort/douglas. 

 

 

but it sure seems like a hassle to take a bus to royal bay a ferry to downtown and 2 more buses to uvic.

 

right now from sooke rd at goldstream it's an  18-minute car ride.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 05 October 2020 - 06:42 AM.

[Mike K.]

15?

Who says it has to go into the harbour? I’d run it to Ogden Point with busses heading to UVic, Uptown, Swartz Bay and Esquimalt, each taking a different route through downtown.

James Bay is already the biggest transit terminus anywhere in the system.

[Mike K.]

Hold on, UVic is also a big terminus. Now I’m curious how they compare to each other.

[Victoria Watcher]

pretty sure james bay association would have a fit if we add 120 more buses to odgen point daily year round.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 05 October 2020 - 06:44 AM.

[Mike K.]

If that’s the case we can finally build that downtown trolley we’ve mused about connecting Ogden Point with Rock Bay.

Anyways, the cruise ships will be relocated to Royal Bay soon enough which means only transit buses will run along those streets.

[Victoria Watcher]

where is a heat-map showing where people actually live in the west shore?  its counterintuitive to drive AWAY from your destination to get on a ferry.  and i'd guess most traffic would be in that direction.

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 05 October 2020 - 06:52 AM.

[Mike K.]

It’s a wash isn’t it? You either head east to go south, or head south to head east.

Most of the West Shore actually heads north, then east, then south to get to downtown via the highway.

[Rob Randall]

Anyways, the cruise ships will be relocated to Royal Bay soon enough 

 

Cruise to Venice and see St. Marks Square!

Cruise to Alaska and see the glaciers!

Cruise to Turkey and see the Roman ruins!

Cruise to Langford and see the Costco!