77 replies to this topic

[Bernard]

^ Why do you say there will be no strategic voting? That sounds like wishful thinking to me.

In STV you have no reason to ever vote for someone you like less higher than someone you like more (well you could if you want to be irrational). Right now Greens are told they have to NDP or they will cause the election of the Liberals, the same for BC Conservatives. In STV there is no fear of 'splitting' the vote.

There is no wishful thinking involved, all preferential balloting systems remove and ability to strategically vote.

[Bernard]

Intellectually I agree with the concept of proportional representation; it allows for minority views to gain a seat at the policy table. It also provides a route for extremism: religious, political, reactionary, to hijack the system out of a need for coalition government.

When you use any PR system that only focuses on political parties for proportionality you reward small political parties that are highly intransigent and ideological. In STV the proportionality is not based around political parties but an outcome of the electoral system that best translates voter's will into representation.

STV is a very hard electoral system for any single issue or extremist parties to get elected. Even if they do, the chance that anyone would want to govern with them is highly unlikely. A government under STV would be made up of MLAs representing a majority of the voters from the election, something that almost never happens in our current system.

[UrbanRail]

Bernard perhaps you can answer this. There has been a lot of talk that the new electorial districts will be much larger than the current ones. (85 down to 20). Wont this make it harder for voters to get proper representation? (I dont think I worded that right). I havent really studied STV is great detail, but are there multiple candidates being elected in each of these new ridings?

[Bernard]

Bernard perhaps you can answer this. There has been a lot of talk that the new electorial districts will be much larger than the current ones. (85 down to 20). Wont this make it harder for voters to get proper representation? (I dont think I worded that right). I havent really studied STV is great detail, but are there multiple candidates being elected in each of these new ridings?

They are bigger, but they are represented by multiple MLAs. The number of people per MLA remains the same.

The difference will be that the public will have more choices of who to go to get help when they seek help from an MLA.

MLAs will also be able to better share resources in representing the people.

[yodsaker]

They are bigger, but they are represented by multiple MLAs. The number of people per MLA remains the same.

The difference will be that the public will have more choices of who to go to get help when they seek help from an MLA.

MLAs will also be able to better share resources in representing the people.

In this way a riding could be represented by several MLAs of different parties. In many/most ridings there are pockets of support for someone other than the actual MLA. E.g. there are parts of OB-Gordon Head that tend NDP while others are wall-to-wall Lib.
When an MLA wins a sizeable majority s/he can effectively shut out those who didn't vote for her/him knowing s/he can't be unseated.
Similar to the way the NDP-tending Island has less clout than the mainland when it comes to funding projects that matter to Islanders.

[Caramia]

That's why I like it - more choices, more emphasis on the quality of the candidate rather than the party machine that they've associated with, more love for politicians who are willing to buck their party line on specific issues, less strategic voting, more accurate representation of the actual votes.

[UrbanRail]

Sounds a lot better than what we have now. STV would essentially put an end to say the Liberals or NDP or Greens, etc putting major infrastructure funding in only the ridings they were elected in. As is the case to what is happening now.

[Bernard]

Sounds a lot better than what we have now. STV would essentially put an end to say the Liberals or NDP or Greens, etc putting major infrastructure funding in only the ridings they were elected in. As is the case to what is happening now.

That will still happen, but on a bigger regional basis.

The biggest potential problem with STV is that it can make representatives too focused on their area. There is a danger of parochialism within STV.

A big complaint in Ireland against STV from the politicians is that with STV they have to spend too much time meeting their voters. Twice they tried to get rid of STV, twice they lost the referendum. It is cabinet members that have complained the most about the difficulty of having to actively represent the people and be in the executive.

Frankly I think this second problem is in fact another reason I like STV

[Rex250]

im my opinion carol james is a good politition, but her platform lacks financial backing. and gardon cambell doesnt pay enough attention to the needs of the island. i would rather have cambell for another term though than have carol run the economy futher into the ground.

[yodsaker]

im my opinion carol james is a good politition, but her platform lacks financial backing. and gardon cambell doesnt pay enough attention to the needs of the island. i would rather have cambell for another term though than have carol run the economy futher into the ground.

IMO both are too dogmatic.

[mat]

That will still happen, but on a bigger regional basis.

The biggest potential problem with STV is that it can make representatives too focused on their area. There is a danger of parochialism within STV.

A big complaint in Ireland against STV from the politicians is that with STV they have to spend too much time meeting their voters. Twice they tried to get rid of STV, twice they lost the referendum. It is cabinet members that have complained the most about the difficulty of having to actively represent the people and be in the executive.

Frankly I think this second problem is in fact another reason I like STV

The outcome of voting under STV is proportional within a single election to the collective preference of voters, assuming voters have ranked their real preferences and vote along strict party lines. However, due to other voting mechanisms usually used in conjunction with STV, such as a district or constituency system, an election using STV may not guarantee proportionality across all districts put together.

STV from Wikipedia

Not a bad reference for the history of STV, variants, pros and cons.

[rjag]

Israel is a prime example of tails wagging the dog and making it very hard to achieve anything.

I think this sums it up very nicely. STV is a big waste, take 10 voters and you'll find 11 opinions. Now translate that into seats. We have disfunctional municipal politicians, now we'll have disfunctional provincial ones too. Nothing will get done, but there sure wil be a lot more studies and committees under an stv government. We had Mayor Moonbeam, now we'll have Premier Stargazer

[mat]

VANCOUVER — A British Columbia New Democratic Party candidate has stepped down to stem a controversy over racy photos posted on his Facebook account.

“An issue was made regarding inappropriate material on my private Facebook page,” Ray Lam, NDP candidate for Vancouver False-Creek, said Sunday night in a statement.

“I regret this material and the associated comments that have now become public.

“I do not want this to be a distraction in the election campaign and have advised the party that I am stepping down.”

How many more will be forced out due to this kind of silliness?

[Bernard]

I think this sums it up very nicely. STV is a big waste, take 10 voters and you'll find 11 opinions. Now translate that into seats. We have disfunctional municipal politicians, now we'll have disfunctional provincial ones too. Nothing will get done, but there sure wil be a lot more studies and committees under an stv government. We had Mayor Moonbeam, now we'll have Premier Stargazer

The two best comparable examples to BC where STV is used is in Tasmania and Ireland. Both are English speaking, both come from the same governance tradition we do, one is the same size in population and one is strongly natural resource based.

In neither case has STV lead to unstable or 'weird' governments. They have had governments as stable as we have had in BC.

[Holden West]

Re: Ray Lam

How many more will be forced out due to this kind of silliness?

I guess this is a symptom of the Facebook generation. Actions that would be unthinkable a generation ago make the kids today roll their eyes and say "what ev, gramps".

But hey, if I decided to run for office I'd probably delete the FB pics of me with my pants down or grabbing boob.

[Bernard]

Re: Ray Lam

I guess this is a symptom of the Facebook generation. Actions that would be unthinkable a generation ago make the kids today roll their eyes and say "what ev, gramps".

But hey, if I decided to run for office I'd probably delete the FB pics of me with my pants down or grabbing boob.

Not only with Facebook, but also with blogging and posts on forums like this one.

The political parties are paranoid about what candidates might have said or done and therefore have a zero tolerance policy for anything.

Problem is that many good people have done something that makes them now unacceptable to run. Having expressed an opinion against a party policy is enough to get you sunk.

[AllseeingEye]

It's not just political parties that routinely monitor Facebook, but also major employers too, including mine/us. You really want that big job or, in this case, party endorsement? Then be very circumspect about what you put on your FB page.

I've worked for several companies now and been involved in the hiring process where, amongst other reasons, we've shot down potential hires for a shocking lack of judgment specifically related to FB and/or blog content. Ray Lam was nothing exceptional - he made a poor call, and paid for it.

Reminds me of those people who get the 'deer in the headlights' look when they discover IT departments can and do easily monitor your work email or internet surfing habits, when specifically authorized to do so. You are fooling yourself if you think HR departments (or political parties) aren't equally adept at researching FB and other similiar sites....

[Holden West]

I think it is an outrage,

-because it demeans the office of the Members of the Legislative Assembly

-and because I didn't get enough of this action in high school

[Ms. B. Havin]

Eww, I hadn't seen the picture with Lam in underpants and the 'come hither' look (as a seated woman "toys" with ...it). What was he thinking - presumably he put this pic on FB when he was already in politics? Dumb.

[victorian fan]

Silly boy.