Jump to content

      












Photo

Food carts & food trucks (mobile food vendors) in Victoria


  • Please log in to reply
269 replies to this topic

#41 Sparky

Sparky

    GET OFF MY LAWN

  • Moderator
  • 12,236 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 01:25 PM

... Portland and it's restaurant businesses seem to be doing just fine with the amount of carts, 500+, they have in the city.


They have a food cart festival in Portland but it is contained of 50 carts.

http://www.foodcartsportland.com/

Do you think there is 450 more somewhere in the city?

#42 Bob Fugger

Bob Fugger

    Chief Factor

  • Member
  • 3,190 posts
  • LocationSouth Central CSV

Posted 02 April 2012 - 02:26 PM

As a consumer I couldn't care less about food carts' operating costs vis a vis restaurants.


Yeah, but as a business owner in the hospitality industry, I do. I think all that we are saying is that regulation ought to recognize that. I would be happy if food carts paid a permit fee based on the pro-rata size of what their business property taxes expect to be, for example. That's all.

Why should food carts freeload off of my exorbitant property taxes? I'm not in business to subsidize their operations, thank you very much.

#43 Mark P

Mark P
  • Member
  • 10 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 02:26 PM

Sorry I used this website http://www.portlandn...food-carts.html that stated 500+ licensed food carts.

The website you gave, which seems a better resource about carts stated that there is at least 200 at any given time, still a lot more than the...3? that Victoria has. I can only think of the one that serves mexican food.

Though the auction system VHF talked about earlier might be why Portland organizes their carts into pods?

#44 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 70,190 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 02:41 PM

I would be more accepting of food cart operations if they paid "rent" to the city on a monthly basis (payable for a 12-month period), paid an annual licensing fee equal to the taxes a similarly-sized brick-and-mortar establishment would pay, and pay for the municipal body regulating all food cart/mobile business operations.

Otherwise food cart operators have a substantial advantage over brick-and-mortar business that a) pay a monthly lease b) pay monthly operating costs c) pay taxes as part of their operating costs d) pay to maintain their premises/renovate their premises and e) and stay open year-round and employ people year-round. Food carts just skim off the top and operate when it's convenient for them. Further to that they rarely employ more than a handful of people, if any at all (other than the owner/operators).

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#45 Bob Fugger

Bob Fugger

    Chief Factor

  • Member
  • 3,190 posts
  • LocationSouth Central CSV

Posted 02 April 2012 - 02:54 PM

I would be more accepting of food cart operations if they paid "rent" to the city on a monthly basis (payable for a 12-month period), paid an annual licensing fee equal to the taxes a similarly-sized brick-and-mortar establishment would pay, and pay for the municipal body regulating all food cart/mobile business operations.

Otherwise food cart operators have a substantial advantage over brick-and-mortar business that a) pay a monthly lease b) pay monthly operating costs c) pay taxes as part of their operating costs d) pay to maintain their premises/renovate their premises and e) and stay open year-round and employ people year-round. Food carts just skim off the top and operate when it's convenient for them. Further to that they rarely employ more than a handful of people, if any at all (other than the owner/operators).


THIS. Very well articulated.

#46 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Suspended User
  • 52,121 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 03:06 PM

I would be more accepting of food cart operations if they paid "rent" to the city on a monthly basis (payable for a 12-month period), paid an annual licensing fee equal to the taxes a similarly-sized brick-and-mortar establishment would pay, and pay for the municipal body regulating all food cart/mobile business operations.

Otherwise food cart operators have a substantial advantage over brick-and-mortar business that a) pay a monthly lease b) pay monthly operating costs c) pay taxes as part of their operating costs d) pay to maintain their premises/renovate their premises and e) and stay open year-round and employ people year-round. Food carts just skim off the top and operate when it's convenient for them. Further to that they rarely employ more than a handful of people, if any at all (other than the owner/operators).


And you could probably add if they also paid taxes fairly. Those cash businesses with no till I'm guessing might occasionally make tax accounting errors in their own favour.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#47 Bingo

Bingo
  • Member
  • 16,666 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 05:33 PM

It is timely that we are talking about Joe whatisname running a one person cart at Yates and Douglas at a time when we have lineups for people getting a Hepatitus shot, because of some unhealthy deli worker. Who monitors the health of the cart people?

#48 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Suspended User
  • 52,121 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:58 PM

It is timely that we are talking about Joe whatisname running a one person cart at Yates and Douglas at a time when we have lineups for people getting a Hepatitus shot, because of some unhealthy deli worker. Who monitors the health of the cart people?


They are monitored like any other food place. I don't think that's an issue.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#49 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,472 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 08:43 PM

So the two carts I know of are on private property. Are they not paying rent? Speaking of the perogi place and the Mexican place.

Personally I like food carts but than I also like people that have tables that sell stuff on the side of the street. probably the worst part of Canadian cities is how boring the streets are.

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#50 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 70,190 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 08:48 PM

They are I'm sure, but it's nowhere near at the cost approaching the monthly rent of a brick-and-mortar establishment. Non mobile food places don't have the luxury of picking and choosing the best times, days and seasons to pay their rent.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#51 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,472 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 08:57 PM

If the only way to make money is a food cart than I guess close the place and buy a cart. No one is walking to Earls and sees a food cart and says naw lets have a hot dog.

Carts add street life and vitality. Should they pay to use a city street? Of course and if the city is allowing carts on the sidewalk for free than as a taxpayer I am upset. Should they be penalized for the small size of their businesses by having to pay more proportionally than a restaurant? No because carts have a smaller ability to scale their sales.

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#52 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 70,190 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:02 PM

Gone are the days of simple hot dog food carts. Modern food cart operations are becoming quite complex and serve dishes that require prep before the food cart even hits the streets. By the time the dish is served it's hard to tell whether you bought that taco at Hernande'z or the food cart on lower Yates.

Right now food cart saturation is low, but where they are located, they do make an impact. I've personally experienced this and found the food cart to be parasitic for nearby food businesses that sold the same or similar items. This isn't anecdotal, this is actual experience.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#53 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,472 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:28 PM

And is the parasitic food cart from your experience still in business today?

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#54 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,472 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:30 PM

Gone are the days of simple hot dog food carts. Modern food cart operations are becoming quite complex and serve dishes that require prep before the food cart even hits the streets. By the time the dish is served it's hard to tell whether you bought that taco at Hernande'z or the food cart on lower Yates.


Are you suggesting some sort of quality cap on food carts?

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#55 vandervalk

vandervalk
  • Member
  • 263 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:30 PM

I don't see how the two compete and if they do, the restaurant that is/has been in operation can get in the game as well and make a splash in the market as well, plus the added advertising it would give them.

I've never decided against eating at a sit down restaurant because a food cart I have passed. My mind could be swayed from last minute McDonald's trek from the office, but not from an actual sit down restaurant.

I think other brick and mortar restaurants should embrace this. Why shouldn't a well received sit down establishment have a cart where the tourists flow to hand out samples/appies of what they serve.

Hook, line, sinker. Just a different form of advertising.

Anyone can have a food cart. Any smart business would have both.
Real Estate, Landscape and Family Photographer
http://www.vandervalk.ca

#56 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Suspended User
  • 52,121 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:35 PM

I think other brick and mortar restaurants should embrace this. Why shouldn't a well received sit down establishment have a cart where the tourists flow to hand out samples/appies of what they serve.

Hook, line, sinker. Just a different form of advertising.

Anyone can have a food cart. Any smart business would have both.


I think you might have something here. Some place like Earl's that has a big patio, why not have a cart/grill at one end selling goods over the counter?
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#57 vandervalk

vandervalk
  • Member
  • 263 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:05 PM

Exactly. Can't see why it wouldn't work.
Real Estate, Landscape and Family Photographer
http://www.vandervalk.ca

#58 Greg

Greg
  • Member
  • 3,362 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:19 PM

Otherwise food cart operators have a substantial advantage over brick-and-mortar business that a) pay a monthly lease b) pay monthly operating costs c) pay taxes as part of their operating costs d) pay to maintain their premises/renovate their premises and e) and stay open year-round and employ people year-round. Food carts just skim off the top and operate when it's convenient for them. Further to that they rarely employ more than a handful of people, if any at all (other than the owner/operators).


Sure, the food carts avoid paying some fixed costs. They also aren't able to offer their customers table service, comfortable seating, and a chance to get out of the rain. This is hardly head-to-head business competition. You might as well complain that the one woman sandwich shop on the side of the Bay Centre has an unfair advantage because she has lower labor costs.

I'm for anything that makes downtown seem just a little bit like, you know, downtown.

#59 Baro

Baro
  • Member
  • 4,317 posts

Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:22 PM

Maybe just allow food served any way and let.. let the market/customer choose? Is that a thing I can say?
"beats greezy have baked donut-dough"

#60 Bob Fugger

Bob Fugger

    Chief Factor

  • Member
  • 3,190 posts
  • LocationSouth Central CSV

Posted 03 April 2012 - 04:19 AM

It's not about head-to-head competition: it's about fair use and compensation of public resources. I mean, if we're going to start making exemptions, then I should pay less property taxes because I create jobs for 20-40 people.

As mentioned above, food carts just skim easy clientele in summer and generally don't create employment. Again, if that's their business model and it's successful, I don't begrudge any cart owner their success - except when it comes at my expense, even indirectly.

You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users