3184 replies to this topic

[On the Level]

Sunk costs should be included?  Why?  Rail corridor property acquisition costs, whether for a rail activation or busway are not included.

The Burnside Bridge widening and facilitation with bus lanes is actually less than half of the $40 million.  Since this is not in First Nations land, those consultation costs would be low.

 

Corridor property is already owned regardless of bus or rail, but property acquisition and maintenance is always "free" for BC Transit.  New maintenance facilities downtown, the new site location in View Royal or the expansion of facilities on the Westshore.   Always hidden and never attached to ridership. 

 

I agree however that they need to make a decision and either kill it off and give the land back to First Nations, or move forward.  Given every bus added to the system represents multiple full time union positions, I expect the NDP to kill it.

[On the Level]

So we went for a drive to see how the progress was going for the E&N on the Westshore.   Nice to see the new underpasses.....  

 

 

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[splashflash]

https://ckpgtoday.ca...ppeal-rejected/

The BC Supreme Court of Appeal ruled to reject the Snaw-naw-As case but did rule that the Island Corridor Foundation has 18 months to have the railway service reinstated.

"Fisher and Abrioux said in their response there must be a firm timeline for the government to make a decision on the future of the trail."

Hmmm, trail .... Freudian slip?

“Given the comprehensive information now available about the condition of the railway, the work that needs to be done and the projected costs to do so, a period of 18 months from the date of this judgment should be sufficient for Canada to determine whether it will approve funding for infrastructure improvements.”

[Victoria Watcher]

18 months is indeed enough to do the work. but it would be a bit slapdash to actually get viable rail running for anything other than cosmetic purposes

[Victoria Watcher]

The E&N used to run between Victoria and Courtenay, with a leg to Parksville. But it has not provided passenger service since 2011 due to the poor condition of its tracks. A remaining section of the line is used for freight traffic out of Nanaimo.

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...-e-n-1.24357958

 

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Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 September 2021 - 06:34 AM.

[splashflash]

https://www.timescol...-e-n-1.24357958
 
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Incorrect, and sadly shows the lack of editing of the online newspapers.

From the ruling:
This appeal concerns the grant of a right of way through the reserve lands of the appellant, Snaw-naw-as First Nation, to the E&N Railway Company in 1912. This right of way is part of a rail corridor on Vancouver Island that runs from Victoria to Courtenay, with a branch from Parksville to Port Alberni and a spur from the main line in Nanaimo to a rail yard loading facility. The Snaw-naw-as Reserve lies in the northern segment of the corridor between Nanaimo and Parksville. The respondent, Island Corridor Foundation (ICF), has owned the railway since 2005

[Victoria Watcher]

The investment required to make commuter trains a reality is $2.6 million per kilometre of track, Peake said, for the installation of 115-pound rails and continuous welding. Of the half dozen proposals to improve the Malahat section of Hwy. 1, Peake said each averages more than $19 million per kilometre.

 

“Every year the province of B.C. spends literally billions of dollars on transportation,” Isitt said. The McKenzie interchange, for example, came at a cost of $96 million when completed in September 2020. “They choose to spend that money on highways rather than on rail.”

 

https://www.vicnews....o-malahat-woes/

 

 

 

 

$2.6M x 225 km (Victoria to Courtenay).  Half a billion dollars.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 November 2021 - 10:23 AM.

[lanforod]

fixing rail isn't going to solve the malahat one route issue. We need a viable car/truck route, not rail.

[Mike K.]

We need a bridge across Esquimalt Harbour, that's what we need for the inner city infrastructure network, not a silly train or LRT. One serious issue on the TCH/Old Island/Burnside nexus and the entire West Shore is cut off from the rest of the region, and the rest of the region is cut off from an escape route whether we have one or five Malahat detours.

[Mike K.]

Our infrastructure is an international farce, and I don't think we realize it. We've placed our eggs in single baskets everywhere in the CRD save for the Saanich Peninsula.

[kitty surprise]

No networking company would ever run additional technology through the same proven risky path as other technology when a less risky and cost/benefit/ROI worthy alternative path exists.

Double lane highway, rail, buses, bike lanes, zip line, whatever. If it's being squeezed through the Malahat our some similar permutation of that alignment- just don't.

[Danma]

One serious issue on the TCH/Old Island/Burnside nexus and the entire West Shore is cut off from the rest of the region, and the rest of the region is cut off from an escape route whether we have one or five Malahat detours.

I agree. We technically have Munn Road and Millstream Lake Road but those roads are incapable of taking any amount of heavy traffic; Millstream Lake Road is only 1 lane wide!

[Victoria Watcher]

The fact that Langford’s population jumped by almost 32 per cent from 2016 to 2021 — to 46,584 from 35,342, according to newly released census data — could be what is needed to make train service work, Young said. “The train wasn’t viable with 25,000 people in Langford or 35,000, but not only is Langford growing, so is Colwood,” he said.

 

Colwood’s population grew to 18,961 in 2021 from 16,859 in 2016, an increase of 12 per cent.

 

Young pointed to Colwood’s $1.2-billion Royal Bay project and the seven or eight towers on the way in Langford as signs of continued growth. “So you’re going to see a downtown core,” he said, adding the core was designed around the E&N corridor.

 

 

https://www.timescol...d-mayor-5047489

 

 

 

I can just see all those rail fans taking a bus from Royal Bay to the train line and getting onboard.

 

Can someone stick a fork in this already?

 

Colwood does not touch the rail line.

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 10 February 2022 - 06:44 AM.

[Nparker]

...I can just see all those rail fans taking a bus from Royal Bay to the train line and getting onboard...

And of course all the passengers either getting on a bus or walking across the bridge to get into downtown. Train service died the day it was decided not to include a new rail line across the harbour.

[Mike K.]

The intent is to perhaps make it easier and more convenient for office workers from the core to get to the West Shore's future provincial offices.

[Victoria Watcher]

Songhees residents are looking forward to their new railway station I'm sure.  

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 10 February 2022 - 09:03 AM.

[davidN]

And of course all the passengers either getting on a bus or walking across the bridge to get into downtown. Train service died the day it was decided not to include a new rail line across the harbour.

Exactly!

[AllseeingEye]

Much as I would love to see "rail" in some form make a comeback IMO we don't have a fraction of the necessary population to support it (consider Calgary 40 years ago was sitting at 600K+ when they implemented their excellent C-trans, which required decades of subsidies thereafter). Which level(s) of senior government, coming out a global pandemic (Canada), not to mention spending buckets of $ rebuilding the BC interior highways (BC), has several hundred million $'s or more just sitting around in some 'happy day' fund, which they can happily devote to a Victoria commuter rail system?

 

On top of all that in order for a true "commuter" system to be of any value "a" train, singular, is useless since potential riders will be left to stand around waiting for it to complete the circuit and return; systems like the C-trains or Vancouver's Skytrain of course have *multiple* trains arriving every few minutes, not every half hour or more. Thus you can jack up that capital budget by xxxxxx$$$$$$ in order to acquire the requisite additional rolling stock. Otherwise what is the point?

[AllseeingEye]

Much as I would love to see "rail" in some form make a comeback IMO we don't have a fraction of the necessary population to support it (consider Calgary 40 years ago was sitting at 600K+ when they implemented their excellent C-trans, which required decades of subsidies thereafter). Which level(s) of senior government, coming out a global pandemic (Canada), not to mention spending buckets of $ rebuilding the BC interior highways (BC), has several hundred million $'s or more just sitting around in some 'happy day' fund, which they can happily devote to a Victoria commuter rail system?

 

On top of all that in order for a true "commuter" system to be of any value "a" train, singular, is useless since potential riders will be left to stand around waiting for it to complete the circuit and return; systems like the C-trains or Vancouver's Skytrain of course have *multiple* trains arriving every few minutes, not every half hour or more. Thus you can jack up that capital budget by xxxxxx$$$$$$ in order to acquire the requisite additional rolling stock. Otherwise what is the point?

[AllseeingEye]

Weird double post. Sorry about that....