3104 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

See, there it is! This “walkable” phrasing is one of those terms that urbanists use which is nebulous, and the definition is completely malleable depending on how places will be compared to one another.

Why hasn’t the Sidewalking guy walked downtown Langford? Dude!!

You can walk from Sooke Road at Jacklin to Millstream at Peatt, and just use side streets if you want. I’m not sure what makes downtown Langford unwalkable, it has sidewalks all throughout its downtown paid for by development.

[G-Man]

The downtown part of Langford is walkable and i agree I need to do an article for sure. It is just small. And forget walking from Langford to Belmont it is a loud car mess with all the pleasure of North Douglas or Blanshard. 

[G-Man]

Walkable usually mean a pleasant place to walk with lots of amenities and stores and is not next to loud car arteries. 

[Ismo07]

See, there it is! This “walkable” phrasing is one of those terms that urbanists use which is nebulous, and the definition is completely malleable depending on how places will be compared to one another.

Why hasn’t the Sidewalking guy walked downtown Langford? Dude!!

You can walk from Sooke Road at Jacklin to Millstream at Peatt, and just use side streets if you want. I’m not sure what makes downtown Langford unwalkable, it has sidewalks all throughout its downtown paid for by development.

 

It's just people do not do it.  Not really...  When your core is a sidewalk and then parking lots, it's not really going to work as a 'downtown' destination.  All those things you mentioned in your previous post were like a regular downtown.  Cook St village is nicer to walk down than the Goldstream strip malls...  I think the issue is you park in a private parking lot of a mall type, you wouldn't then walk two blocks typically you would drive to your next strip mall...  You do not have that downtown feel...  

Edited by Ismo07, 23 March 2022 - 12:53 PM.

[Mike K.]

It's just people do not do it.  Not really...  When your core is a sidewalk and then parking lots, it's not really going to work as a 'downtown' destination.  All those things you mentioned in your previous post were like a regular downtown.  Cook St village is nicer to walk down than the Goldstream strip malls...  I think the issue is you park in a private parking lot of a mall type, you wouldn't then walk two blocks typically you would drive to your next strip mall...  You do not have that downtown feel...  

 

Downtown Victoria had more surface parking lots throughout the last 60 years than it did residential towers. It also lost population between 1960 and 2010.

 

You guys have very short memories. Things change, and not that long ago downtown Victoria was strikingly different, built form wise, than it is today.

 

Should we go through a history lesson of what downtown Victoria looked like in 1920, compared to 2005?

[Mike K.]

Walkable usually mean a pleasant place to walk with lots of amenities and stores and is not next to loud car arteries. 

 

Which by definition would exclude nearly all of downtown Victoria.

 

Perhaps where the disconnect stems from is your perception of downtown Langford is gleaned by driving through it. You may not have spent much time actually walking it. That may be the case for Ismo, too, who seems to be driving through it, never walking it.

[Ismo07]

Downtown Victoria had more surface parking lots throughout the last 60 years than it did residential towers. It also lost population between 1960 and 2010.

 

You guys have very short memories. Things change, and not that long ago downtown Victoria was strikingly different, built form wise, than it is today.

 

Should we go through a history lesson of what downtown Victoria looked like in 1920, compared to 2005?

 

Mike but people didn't walk from the sidewalk across parking lots to go to shops...  Shops were along the road, not strip malls..  Memory is not short...  But that is very different than what Langford is doing.

 

Which by definition would exclude nearly all of downtown Victoria.

 

Perhaps where the disconnect stems from is your perception of downtown Langford is gleaned by driving through it. You may not have spent much time actually walking it. That may be the case for Ismo, too, who seems to be driving through it, never walking it.

 

Where do you park and walk in Langford?  You park on private property and leave your vehicle there to stroll down the block for lunch?  I'm not sure that is really proper either...  I actually do walk it..  You want to know how many people I pass while walking?  Let's meet down there..  

Edited by Ismo07, 23 March 2022 - 02:30 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

What “shops” are people hoping for in 5 or 10 years? Some clothing shops might survive. Food stores. Not sure much else.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 23 March 2022 - 02:28 PM.

[Ismo07]

What “shops” are people hoping for in 5 or 10 years? Some clothing shops might survive. Food stores. Not sure much else.

 

Well Mike was talking about over the last 60 years in Victoria...  Equating to the empty parking lots to parking lots that are private property used by small strip malls.  I don't know about the next 5 to 10 years but I'm sure it will be similar to downtown Victoria now...  

Edited by Ismo07, 23 March 2022 - 02:40 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

What was the last major retailer to open downtown? Dollarama does not count. Winners in the mall?

The next 5-10 won’t be kind to retail.

[Ismo07]

What was the last major retailer to open downtown? Dollarama does not count. Winners in the mall?

The next 5-10 won’t be kind to retail.

 

There is some type of furniture store opening on Government.. I don't really know about a major retailer, we don't really get many.  If the Bay left however that wouldn't be great..  I remember what happened to downtown when Eaton's left...  That was not good...  Is there major retailer space that is sitting there?  I guess when London Drugs gets torn down in favour of a large development.  Save on Foods recently came I suppose depending on your definition of downtown.  Maybe MEC goes...  The last two years were not great for retail and certainly due to that people stared in with Amazon etc.  Listen I get it, easy to dump on Downtown Victoria, but a little too early to bury her and and crown 4 blocks of Goldstream Ave.  

[Mike K.]

Mike but people didn't walk from the sidewalk across parking lots to go to shops... Shops were along the road, not strip malls.. Memory is not short... But that is very different than what Langford is doing.


Where do you park and walk in Langford? You park on private property and leave your vehicle there to stroll down the block for lunch? I'm not sure that is really proper either... I actually do walk it.. You want to know how many people I pass while walking? Let's meet down there..

What are you talking about?

You park on the street.

[Ismo07]

What are you talking about?

You park on the street.

 

That's very few opportunities to do that..  Quick google trip down Goldstream does show more parked cars than people walking...  Wasn't Stu talking about 3 parking lots (properties) they purchased with giving people free parking 20 years later?

Edited by Ismo07, 23 March 2022 - 03:09 PM.

[Mike K.]

Did the people fly away from the cars they parked?

[On the Level]

The goose runs right through downtown Langford. People bike and walk all the time.  Between the E&N Rail Trail and the Goose, you can walk or bike to View Royal, Goldstream, Royal Roads, Juan de Fuca Recreation with little contact with a street.

[Mike K.]

Technically the Goose runs south of downtown Langford, crossing Veterans at Kelly, but the E&N Rail Trail runs right along the tracks so you can walk all of downtown Langford along the rail trail if you’d like.

And this year Langford is completing its Station Ave beatification project with the ICF to include stalls for food trucks on ICF land alongside the railroad tracks.

[Ismo07]

Did the people fly away from the cars they parked?

 

No they walk into a store (1 location) then if they need to go to another with a parking lot, they drive to that one..  They don't leave their car and walk 3 blocks...  All I'm saying...  

[Ismo07]

Technically the Goose runs south of downtown Langford, crossing Veterans at Kelly, but the E&N Rail Trail runs right along the tracks so you can walk all of downtown Langford along the rail trail if you’d like.

And this year Langford is completing its Station Ave beatification project with the ICF to include stalls for food trucks on ICF land alongside the railroad tracks.

 

It's not that you can't walk around.  It's that few do....

[Victoria Watcher]

No they walk into a store (1 location) then if they need to go to another with a parking lot, they drive to that one..  They don't leave their car and walk 3 blocks...  All I'm saying...  

 

I concur.

[dasmo]

The goose is a success that is for sure. I ride it fairly regular and it is busy enough in the winter. It's actually easier for me to ride into town than drive at this point. Instead of trains we could have inexpensive electric vehicles based on e-bike platforms, max 50km/h some sort of max weight that can use the e&n. Build a walking path beside it. Allow the vehicles on the street in the downtown zone so can cross the bridge and find parking zones and not cause conflict with the bikes.