Jump to content

      












Photo

Municipal/regional water supply discussion


  • Please log in to reply
979 replies to this topic

#941 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 32,547 posts

Posted 15 May 2022 - 04:48 PM

Does anyone ask why the reservoirs aren't enlarged, especially during a "climate crisis"? Their own website even says this:

...Having as much water storage in the reservoir as possible provides the assurance that not only will there be a sufficient quantity of drinking water for the year, but it also provides the flexibility to deal with changing weather and precipitation patterns and forest fires... Greater Victoria's drinking water supply relies entirely on the water stored during the winter months...

So why aren't we making any effort to store more water in the winter?



#942 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 70,190 posts

Posted 15 May 2022 - 05:07 PM

Because we have to rebuild a museum.

Remember that the next time some smarty pants says ‘where do you think we can get the money to pay for [insert important infrastructure improvement project].’
  • Nparker, Matt R. and Barrrister like this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#943 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 32,547 posts

Posted 15 May 2022 - 05:56 PM

Yup.

#944 Spy Black

Spy Black
  • Member
  • 2,087 posts

Posted 15 May 2022 - 08:04 PM

All the water we'll ever need is already right there in the reservoir.

When talking about water conservation and the reservoir, you always have to recall that our available water from Sooke Lake is less than half of what Sooke Lake actually holds.

 

When the CRD finally settles on the fact that the Leech River is unusable due to turbidity and outrageous flow rates during freshet ... and they develop a plan to move the water from the currently inaccessible, and very, very deep north end of Sooke Lake ... we'll have enough water for another 150,000 people on top of what we have right now.

 

CRD Water doesn't talk about the Sooke Lake north end plan very often, as it makes them look a bit silly for all their endless talk about water conservation, and money already spent on developing the Leech (which will never turn into a drinking water source).

 

There are also a lot of folks who feel that the CRD uses water as an excuse to control housing development and population expansion ... which has an almost conspiracy bent associated with it.


Edited by Spy Black, 15 May 2022 - 08:07 PM.

  • Nparker and Matt R. like this

#945 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 70,190 posts

Posted 15 May 2022 - 08:59 PM

They do use water access as development control, that’s a fact. Water is what limits development beyond Sooke, and expansion of water access is a hotly debated issue when it arises at the CRD board.

The moment a line runs down Highway 14 past Sooke that’ll be the start of major development out that way.

What I wonder about is how East Sooke managed to get water in the subdivisions facing Sooke-proper along the western edge of East Sooke Park. You’ve got CRD water all throughout there. There’s also the water system fed by a reservoir atop Mt. Matheson. So if they really want to supply water to suburbs, they certainly can and find ways to do it. So why it’s not currently run past Sooke, is politics.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#946 Spy Black

Spy Black
  • Member
  • 2,087 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 05:10 AM

The CRD actually has a policy to extend water past Sooke, and it's that policy that pretty much guarantees that it will never happen. The policy states that only those users who will benefit by the extension will be obliged to pay the capital costs for installation (which are around $1000.00 per metre of pipe). 

In other words, a few thousand people will be obliged to pay many millions of dollars to the CRD for infrastructure work.

The wider Sooke area is currently a mish mash of private water companies right now, Kemp Lake, Misty Ridge Water Co (on top of Mt Matheson), Wilderness Mountain Water System, Sheringham Water Works, etc.
The CRD wholesales water to Juan De Fuca Water Distribution System, who then retail that water to most of the residents of the Sooke area.
Any of the small private water supply systems that draw water from a well (and there are many) is permitted by Island Health, the CRD being uninvolved.

It's a bit of a mess out Sooke way in terms of existing water supply currently, making further expansion out that way any time soon very highly unlikely.


Edited by Spy Black, 16 May 2022 - 05:18 AM.


#947 JohnN

JohnN
  • Member
  • 2,161 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 05:10 AM

All the water we'll ever need is already right there in the reservoir.

When talking about water conservation and the reservoir, you always have to recall that our available water from Sooke Lake is less than half of what Sooke Lake actually holds.

 

When the CRD finally settles on the fact that the Leech River is unusable due to turbidity and outrageous flow rates during freshet ... and they develop a plan to move the water from the currently inaccessible, and very, very deep north end of Sooke Lake ... we'll have enough water for another 150,000 people on top of what we have right now.

 

CRD Water doesn't talk about the Sooke Lake north end plan very often, as it makes them look a bit silly for all their endless talk about water conservation, and money already spent on developing the Leech (which will never turn into a drinking water source).

 

There are also a lot of folks who feel that the CRD uses water as an excuse to control housing development and population expansion ... which has an almost conspiracy bent associated with it.

I recall that CRD was (or did) buy a lot of pipe and pump to be ready to get water our of bottom of North Basin in case the rains didn't come back on time - I think it was about 2001 or so. 

"Developing a contingency plan for pumping from the north basin of the Sooke Reservoir" 

 

Not sure about how the Leech River freshet might impact on water supply, as it would be diverted into the main reservoir  (through that blocked up tunnel?) but I think their has been talk about the Leech getting "greened up" for another 30 years to improve water quality before using that water, and even then, probably spending another $150 million or so on filtration plant that apparently feds are advocating anyway. 


:)

#948 JohnN

JohnN
  • Member
  • 2,161 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 05:13 AM

Does anyone ask why the reservoirs aren't enlarged, especially during a "climate crisis"? Their own website even says this:

So why aren't we making any effort to store more water in the winter?

I think that Sooke Reservoir dam is as high as it can go before flooding the swampy north end and getting poor quality water. So that was rationale to spend the $60 million or so and do forest rehab on Leech watershed. However, might be ironic that if Leech water does require filtration to improve quality and safety, could be that the swampy north end could be exploited and the water quality meet test minimums because of the filtration plant. 


:)

#949 Spy Black

Spy Black
  • Member
  • 2,087 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 05:27 AM

Not sure about how the Leech River freshet might impact on water supply, as it would be diverted into the main reservoir  (through that blocked up tunnel?) but I think their has been talk about the Leech getting "greened up" for another 30 years to improve water quality before using that water, and even then, probably spending another $150 million or so on filtration plant that apparently feds are advocating anyway. 

Yes, it's that diversion from the Leech into the main reservoir that was the issue. Prior to blocking the tunnel, CRD Water did divert some water from the Leech to the main reservoir ... and it almost took the main reservoir out of commission with the turbidity of the Leech, it pumped tons of solids through the tunnel and into the reservoir. 
There is no Leech filtration system currently in place as you note, nor is one planned at this point.

The tunnel is currently blocked off, and has tons of trees and freshet waste pushed up against its entry point on the Leech. I've never seen the main reservoir end of that tunnel, but there's certainly no place for a filtration system at the Leech end. The Leech River valley is so steep and rugged it's hard enough just walking or driving around up there.

For folks that have ever seen the Leech River in full freshet, it's pretty obvious that it will never be part of a tame, regulated water supply system. 
I guess with hundreds of millions of dollars you can do anything, but simply accessing the perfectly clean water at the north end of Sooke Lake is doable, relatively cost effective, and realistic.
The Leech River is definitely none of those things currently.



#950 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 70,190 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 06:05 AM

The CRD actually has a policy to extend water past Sooke, and it's that policy that pretty much guarantees that it will never happen. The policy states that only those users who will benefit by the extension will be obliged to pay the capital costs for installation (which are around $1000.00 per metre of pipe).

In other words, a few thousand people will be obliged to pay many millions of dollars to the CRD for infrastructure work.

The wider Sooke area is currently a mish mash of private water companies right now, Kemp Lake, Misty Ridge Water Co (on top of Mt Matheson), Wilderness Mountain Water System, Sheringham Water Works, etc.
The CRD wholesales water to Juan De Fuca Water Distribution System, who then retail that water to most of the residents of the Sooke area.
Any of the small private water supply systems that draw water from a well (and there are many) is permitted by Island Health, the CRD being uninvolved.

It's a bit of a mess out Sooke way in terms of existing water supply currently, making further expansion out that way any time soon very highly unlikely.

Yeah, same thing.

The consternation recently was that the province expanded 11km of Highway 14 to French Beach, without laying pipe. All the cost is on ground works which they were doing. It’s all politics.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#951 JohnN

JohnN
  • Member
  • 2,161 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 06:45 AM

Yes, it's that diversion from the Leech into the main reservoir that was the issue. Prior to blocking the tunnel, CRD Water did divert some water from the Leech to the main reservoir ... and it almost took the main reservoir out of commission with the turbidity of the Leech, it pumped tons of solids through the tunnel and into the reservoir. 
There is no Leech filtration system currently in place as you note, nor is one planned at this point.

The tunnel is currently blocked off, and has tons of trees and freshet waste pushed up against its entry point on the Leech. I've never seen the main reservoir end of that tunnel, but there's certainly no place for a filtration system at the Leech end. The Leech River valley is so steep and rugged it's hard enough just walking or driving around up there.

For folks that have ever seen the Leech River in full freshet, it's pretty obvious that it will never be part of a tame, regulated water supply system. 
I guess with hundreds of millions of dollars you can do anything, but simply accessing the perfectly clean water at the north end of Sooke Lake is doable, relatively cost effective, and realistic.
The Leech River is definitely none of those things currently.

Good points. I do recall now that CRD chief forester Gordon Joyce (or maybe Nils Jensen, not sure) saying something in about 2001 or so about the major reforestation plan for Leech included the expectation that with more, bigger trees, the high runoff could be stabilized. However, with the plans and pipes already around for North Basin, that seems more doable.

 

Either way, I think an expensive filtration plant is probably going to happen and likely to be sited near where the disinfection plants are now. Between pumping North Basin and pumping through filtration plant, I guess a higher-capacity electrical transmission line will be needed too.

 

A hundred million dollars here and there - no problem as long as the paradigm remains that more expensive water supply leads to more conservation. 


:)

#952 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 70,190 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 08:12 AM

From UVic, just now:

Expert Q&A on water crisis amidst climate change

The threat to water security is just as urgent as the climate crisis, says Oliver M. Brandes, project lead of the POLIS Water Sustainability Project at the University of Victoria. An economist and lawyer by training, Brandes is co-director of the POLIS Project on Ecological Governance, based at UVic’s Centre for Global Studies (CFGS), where he leads its award-winning water sustainability project and serves as associate director of CFGS.

Among other affiliations, Brandes is a founding member and current chair of the Forum for Leadership on Water (FLOW).

FLOW recently released an open letter calling on Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to acknowledge the “climate crisis as a water crisis.”

Q. What is your biggest fear about the water crisis?

A. My fear is that we will miss the opportunities.

In Canada, certainly on the West Coast, we are somewhat fortunate in the sense we aren’t yet over the cliff. We might be approaching the cliff, but we’re not yet over it.

My fear is that people are going to realize too late the real opportunities ahead of us to transform our societies, governance and policies, and thus build the necessary resilience to help secure our future both for us and our children.

Q. What worries you from a global context about social injustice and water security?

A. We become more polarized when we’re under pressure. People’s resilience is rapidly diminishing. For instance, food security concerns get amplified when we have to make difficult trade-offs. Whether it’s choosing between growing enough food, developing better housing, addressing immigration issues or dealing with famine and economic stability, the list goes on. Water is always this unbelievably important connector issue.

There are all kinds of different approaches globally to how people interact with water. Different cultures have different ways of looking at water and the values that underpin perception and priorities. And that’s an important aspect of thinking about creative solutions. Western science with a colonial mindset won’t get us out of this.

Q. The BC and federal governments both recently released their budgets. What looks promising for water security, in your opinion, and are there any gaps?

A. You can see a tale of two kinds of approaches to investment.

We have a lot of work ahead of us. I’d like to see the federal government be bolder and I’d like to see the provincial government take advantage of its early investment and really leverage it and build on it—maybe even become a national or continental leader.

Q. What can people do in their daily lives to help avoid an escalating water crisis?

A. We know about being mindful on so many levels. But water is one of those things that’s easy to take for granted, especially on the coast where drought is often immediately followed by rain. In this context of wild extremes, it is very easy to forget and just assume things will be fine without making any of the real changes we will ultimately need to do.

Outdated appliances, water-guzzling showers, and profligate outdoor water use—things like using fresh water to recreate a landscape and maintaining extensive lawns in the middle of summer have huge water implications. If we’re talking about system change, we have to change the incentives and priorities. And that’s our role, not just as individuals, but as citizens. As individuals, we can make choices and be more stewardship oriented, but ultimately it must be about collective action.

It’s about empowering the leaders who want to be bold and are prepared to make hard trade-offs and really make the tough choices to ensure we begin the system changes and ensure the solutions we put in place—the rules, regulations, legal protections and local decision-making—remain durable even as circumstances and our climate continues to change.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#953 Spy Black

Spy Black
  • Member
  • 2,087 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 08:19 AM

I'm afraid I'm out of touch to the point where I simply don't get how "water security" and "social injustice" are in any way connected?

 

I can't recall reading any interviews lately where my final thought was "did I miss something, or is that interview as completely pointless as it seemed"?



#954 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 70,190 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 08:22 AM

Nobody's freaking out over water this spring, so we need the media to pick up this press release and start running fearful headlines. Later today or this week they'll start to appear.


  • Nparker likes this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#955 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 32,547 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 08:27 AM

To avoid the "crisis" we simply need to capture and store more water during the wet seasons.



#956 lanforod

lanforod
  • Member
  • 8,703 posts
  • LocationSaanich

Posted 16 May 2022 - 09:36 AM

I'm still very much looking forward to our upcoming 'San Diego like' climate here.


  • Spy Black likes this

#957 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 70,190 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 10:46 AM

First, more snow at the 1100 meter mark this week.
  • Matt R. likes this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#958 dasmo

dasmo
  • Member
  • 8,141 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 11:09 AM

We definitely need to only flush the toilet if it is a number two.... meanwhile.... 500,000 gallons and 40 seconds later. 

https://www.youtube....h?v=G0t7sQIh_Ac



#959 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 70,190 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 11:26 AM

Ok, hippie.
  • dasmo likes this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#960 dasmo

dasmo
  • Member
  • 8,141 posts

Posted 16 May 2022 - 11:39 AM

Ok, hippie.

If it's yellow let it mellow.... 



You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users