823 replies to this topic

[dasmo]

I would be curious to read all the details. It sounds like they were going a little clockwork orange....

[LJ]

There are three broken windows that have not been fixed for two years," she says

 

 

^{Who broke the three windows?} 

 

What you meant to say was you have not bothered to fix them.

[Cassidy]

The Indian Act was written in 1876, and it was fundamentally broken the moment it was passed by Parliament.

 

Human nature is a very odd thing, and with the Indian Act mercilessly pandering to peoples most negative inclinations, you get the abysmal First Nations reserves you see in 2018.

 

Politically incorrect to even talk about ... I know ... but sadly all too true.

 

[Mike K.]

The system was designed to encircle a culture and slowly destroy it. And it’s socialism-based dependency in a capitalist society, where the tap runs dry when you move off the reserve, but if you stay chances are substance abuse, poverty and a lack of education will slowly chip away at you and your community. And in your community eventually everything turns to ruin as poverty builds more poverty. Eventually outsiders looking in wonder “how can that be?”

The key is education. I agree that we must preserve culture in our society, but indigenous communities need better access to education. Is that possible among reserves in extremely rural communities? I don’t think it is, at least not in a way where the outcomes are good. The residential schools I suppose tried that, but the outcome created more problems that we're still untangling today.

[VicHockeyFan]

The key is education. I agree that we must preserve culture in our society, but indigenous communities need better access to education. Is that possible among reserves in extremely rural communities? I don’t think it is, at least not in a way where the outcomes are good. The residential schools I suppose tried that, but the outcome created more problems that we're still untangling today.

 

There is good access to education in indigenous communities, at least as good as in any small community.  But there is a not a very strong willingness to learn.  It's like most schools in depressed or poor areas. 

 

The crazy thing about our reserves is there is no will, inside or outside, to change anything, really.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 12 February 2018 - 03:12 PM.

[amor de cosmos]

sounds like the location of the old Butchart plant


 

The Malahat Nation is praising the provincial government for stepping forward to buy a chunk of the former Bamberton industrial site near Mill Bay in order to advance the treaty process.

The province announced Friday that it paid more than $9 million for 230 hectares that will form part of the Malahat Nation’s treaty lands once a final agreement is reached.

Scott Fraser, minister of Indigenous relations and reconciliation, said Vancouver Island lacks a supply of Crown land available for treaty settlements, so the government took the unusual step of buying private property to move the talks ahead.

“We’re doing things differently,” he said. “Part of my mandate is to address the bottlenecks within the treaty system.

“I mean, we’d be deadlocked forever and ever and Malahat would never achieve treaty if we didn’t think out of the box on this one.”

The Malahat Nation, which has about 340 members, is in final agreement negotiations on a treaty with B.C. and Canada.

Malahat Nation Coun. Matt Harry credited the province for taking an “open-minded” approach in helping the nation triple the size of its land base.

“I think they were really good to deal with,” he said.

Coun. George Harry said the additional land will provide important economic and training opportunities for the Malahat people.

“It’s such a huge step forward,” he said.

The nation’s former council and executive announced three years ago that it had acquired 525 hectares at Bamberton, which is the site of a former cement plant and quarry about 40 kilometres north of Victoria.

Edited by amor de cosmos, 04 March 2018 - 07:51 AM.

[Cassidy]

I'm not at all clear on the difference between established "reservations" and these pending and newly granted "treaty lands"?

 

Can First Nations develop industry, sell parcels of land to non-band members, and otherwise develop "treaty lands" as a developer would develop any prime piece of real estate, something they can't do on reservations?

[VicHockeyFan]

You know what’s odd though? This is the exact same land that Malahat announced they had “bought” in 2015. That conditional sale was about to collapse and the band was about to lose a couple million in deposits. So this was a BC government bailout of a bad native land play.

[VicHockeyFan]

2015 purchase:

http://www.timescolo...dings-1.2003972

[VicHockeyFan]

This weeks news:

The nation’s former council and executive announced three years ago that it had acquired 525 hectares at Bamberton, which is the site of a former cement plant and quarry about 40 kilometres north of Victoria.
But current chief executive officer Renee Racette said the complicated arrangement was in danger of going sideways before the province intervened to purchase part of the property.
“We would have lost the land and we would have lost millions of dollars in our down payment,” he said. “It would have been disastrous.”
She said the nation owes the province a “debt of gratitude” for stepping up to help protect the renamed Malahat Lands. “They’ve really come forward to say: ‘Let’s reconcile. Let’s figure out solutions.’ They’ve been a real partner in a way that I’ve never seen before.

[spanky123]

I'm not at all clear on the difference between established "reservations" and these pending and newly granted "treaty lands"?

 

Can First Nations develop industry, sell parcels of land to non-band members, and otherwise develop "treaty lands" as a developer would develop any prime piece of real estate, something they can't do on reservations?

 

It is complicated. There are different models for different bands and land types.

[Mattjvd]

I'm not at all clear on the difference between established "reservations" and these pending and newly granted "treaty lands"?

Can First Nations develop industry, sell parcels of land to non-band members, and otherwise develop "treaty lands" as a developer would develop any prime piece of real estate, something they can't do on reservations?

Many of the new treaty lands are organized into a band-run government with a level of autonomy somewhere between a municipality and a province. Individuals can buy or lease land there, there are normal property rights. What gets developed will be up to the band to approve for zoning. The treaty lands will also be worked into the federal tax structure (but not the provincial). Bands may add their own taxes similar to property tax, PST, etc.

So yes, the band can sell parcels of land to a non-native developer. That developer will have to get it's building approvals from the band and residences will pay taxes to the band.

Edited by Mattjvd, 04 March 2018 - 09:50 AM.

[VicHockeyFan]

Many of the new treaty lands are organized into a band-run government with a level of autonomy somewhere between a municipality and a province. Individuals can buy or lease land there, there are normal property rights. What gets developed will be up to the band to approve for zoning. The treaty lands will also be worked into the federal tax structure (but not the provincial). Bands may add their own taxes similar to property tax, PST, etc.

So yes, the band can sell parcels of land to a non-native developer. That developer will have to get it's building approvals from the band and residences will pay taxes to the band.

 

And that still is a big warning sign for potential investors, unfortunately.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 04 March 2018 - 09:54 AM.

[Mattjvd]

And that still is a big warning sign for potential investors, unfortunately.

I imagine it will be hit and miss. Some bands will do well and some will struggle (administratively and finding the appropriate level of tax). In the mean time, it will add a little more risk premium in capital budgeting decisions.

Edited by Mattjvd, 04 March 2018 - 10:10 AM.

[VicHockeyFan]

You are right. I should probably not say “unfortunately” as some types of business might prosper in that environment.

[rjag]

Wasn’t that area the proposed LNG terminal? Would be funny if after they settle then turn around and do an end run around the greendp

[spanky123]

Most of the deals I have seen related to purchases by non-native buyers are just for the building, the land is still leased. Having said that, there are different structures of FN land management as I mentioned earlier.

[Mattjvd]

Most of the deals I have seen related to purchases by non-native buyers are just for the building, the land is still leased. Having said that, there are different structures of FN land management as I mentioned earlier.

Yeah in practice, I think land purchases are rare. However, there is nothing legally preventing them, like there is with purchasing land on reserves.

[VicHockeyFan]

How can we learn more about this Malahat land purchase?

Did we know that the province was required to purchase or give up land to the Malahat Nation?

They only have 135 people living on the reserve. And we just bought them 525 more acres.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 05 March 2018 - 09:43 AM.

[spanky123]

Yeah in practice, I think land purchases are rare. However, there is nothing legally preventing them, like there is with purchasing land on reserves.

 

Actually in most cases there is a lot preventing them from selling the land. The intent of the settlements is to provide a future for the band, not a flip to a developer that only a few people might benefit from.