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[Vic West] The Wing rental | 6-storeys | Built - completed in 2010


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#41 Caramia

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 02:46 PM

Um yeah... 12,000 a month isn't really affordable housing. But more rental stock at the mid range is nice.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
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#42 Koru

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 03:58 PM

Um yeah... 12,000 a month isn't really affordable housing. But more rental stock at the mid range is nice.


*whistles* 12k a month Cara? yeesh I want to know where to get me one of those :P

#43 P.Schilling

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 11:39 AM

as i said about the hudson, townline has more projects which are going to be more valuable to finish than the hudson. I was referencing this, seeing as there is no question about having to sell it to cash strapped market at the end of the project. Townline just recieved a huge injection of working capital into their pockets which they can spend as they want.

expect them to concentrate on this project untill the market rebounds, seeing as the heritage conservation is extremely expensive it makes no sence to rush to complete that project just to sit with it on your hands.

#44 P.Schilling

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 11:46 AM

I don't think that Monday Magazine has ever pretended to be anything but left wing. Don't read it if you don't like the opinions.

As far as the Wing is concerned it is a pretty sweet deal for Townline. They get $800K in grants from Government plus a 10 year tax holiday and a mortgage from the Province that you can bet is foreclosure proof and in a couple of years will be discounted or forgiven.

The city doesn't have a shortage of rental accomodation, it has a shortage of "affordable" rental accomodation. I am not sure that $1,200 a month for a 3 bedroom unit is any more affordable than anything else you will find on craiglist in the same price range.

In my opinion the City of Victoria, given that it already is talking about a 5-7% tax increase this year, has better use for $500K and tax holidays.


maybe you missed the part in the article where it talks about rent being 85% of market. 3 bedroom for $1200 sounds rough but really i know people paying $1200 for a two bedroom in gorge view apartments, not to mention my brother just moved into a one bedroom in langford for $900. Nice try but having a working relation with the "affordable rentals" organization as taught me, affordable is from market rate down, and there are far more people just about to make market rent than there are drastically below. Such will be the discussion at the CHRA conference this week that I will be attending.

#45 spanky123

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 04:51 PM

$1,200 is ok but no great shakes. Take a look at Craiglist. In the past 1.5 days there have been over 100 NEW listings for rentals in Victoria.

Lets take an average Wing rent then of $900. At 85% of market the cost to the landlord is about $1,600 a year per unit or about $40K for the 25 units they have committed to being subsidized. For $40K a year the developer gets $810K up front and a 10 year tax holiday. They also get a sweetheart $8M mortgage which you suggest they can then use for anything they want.

The last council dragged their butts on everything but at least there were a few competent business people. Fortin on the other hand just appears to be a fool giving away taxpayer money for an immaterial benefit to the city.

#46 martini

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:17 AM

Duplicate. Didn't see Gumgum's posting of the article.

#47 jklymak

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:23 AM

Fortin on the other hand just appears to be a fool giving away taxpayer money for an immaterial benefit to the city.


You seem to be basing this on the premise that a developer would build the units at market rent. They haven't been lining up to do so, so I wouldn't be so quick to write this off as a bad deal for the city.

#48 spanky123

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 11:49 AM

You seem to be basing this on the premise that a developer would build the units at market rent. They haven't been lining up to do so, so I wouldn't be so quick to write this off as a bad deal for the city.


My point is that developers are not lining up to build rental accomodation since there is clearly no shortage of rental accomodation in the city. Everyone and their dog is renting out basement suits and extra rooms which conveniently don't get counted as available stock.

The question is whether it is in the taxpayer's interest to subsidize rentals to the tune of $40K a pop plus a tax holiday for a 15% discount off of "market rents". Heck offer me half of that to drop my rental prices by 15% and I would be all over it.

#49 jklymak

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 02:25 PM

I don't know. I thought there was a shortage of rentals. If there really is not, then I agree - subsidizing more makes no sense.

#50 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 03:11 PM

I don't know. I thought there was a shortage of rentals. If there really is not, then I agree - subsidizing more makes no sense.


Is there a shortage of rentals? Are some people homeless and sleeping on the streets because they can't find a place at all to live? They live on the streets and just save the $850 a month they would gladly spend on rent? Or does a "shortage" just mean that it's expensive to live here? It's expensive to live in New York City too. So people live other places, even if they work in NYC.

#51 D.L.

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 03:28 PM

it's not a rental shortage. it's an oversupply of people

#52 Koru

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 03:50 PM

probably move this into the active construction thread again? or are we waiting to see guys on site?

#53 jklymak

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 05:17 PM

Is there a shortage of rentals? Are some people homeless and sleeping on the streets because they can't find a place at all to live? They live on the streets and just save the $850 a month they would gladly spend on rent? Or does a "shortage" just mean that it's expensive to live here? It's expensive to live in New York City too. So people live other places, even if they work in NYC.


I would define a low vacancy rate as a "shortage". I also think there is a large gap between being completely homeless and paying more than you can afford just to keep a roof over your family's head.

Housing affordability is something this council campaigned on - I'm not shocked they are acting on it. Whether they are doing it the most efficient way possible, I'm not sure. I think having this project up and running again can only be good for the city.

#54 martini

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 05:53 PM

I don't know. I thought there was a shortage of rentals. If there really is not, then I agree - subsidizing more makes no sense.


I'm getting the sense that the point is being missed here...affordable housing.

Whether there's a rental shortage or not is moot.
Individuals and families are homeless because there is a severe lack of affordable housing.
We have too many families living in hotels and now couch surfing because off season rates are gone.
Any individual or family receiving income assistance/disability cannot afford market rent period.

#55 Phil McAvity

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 10:40 PM

^True dat-they lost track of the word "affordable" along the way however I agree with spanky, $1200/month rent doesn't seem too affordable to me. I live in an average 2 bedroom apartment and pay $975/month. I also think there must be some kind of benefit for the city to kick in $510,000 to help finish this thing, I just don't know what it is and like VHF said I really don't think there are a lot of homeless people out there who are just waiting to get into apartments at either $1200/month or $975/month. People are homeless because they have mental/emotional problems and/or addictions. Martini, do you know any familiies that are in the situations you describe? I don't and never have because the last I heard, welfare gave parents enough money for food and rent.

jklymak, please explain to me how this project is going to help the city because I don't see it, other than providing a few temporary construction jobs at the expense of the taxpayer.

*whistles* 12k a month Cara? yeesh I want to know where to get me one of those :P


Yeah, I think we'll have to chalk her math up to an ADD moment. The weirdest thing was, she actually had the comma in the right place when she said 12,000 a month for rent. :confused:
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#56 martini

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 11:11 PM

Martini, do you know any familiies that are in the situations you describe? I don't and never have because the last I heard, welfare gave parents enough money for food and rent.

Well this is a reality in Victoria. Just contact housing outreach.
Gorge Rd. Traveller's Inns are frequented by homeless families.
Maybe you forgot about the young boy who died in one of those motels.
Motel families grow desperate:
http://www2.canada.c...5f-157fa14ba5f1
Do you know what welfare pays?
I'll let you guess before posting the answer.

#57 Caramia

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 10:12 AM

Yeah, I think we'll have to chalk her math up to an ADD moment. The weirdest thing was, she actually had the comma in the right place when she said 12,000 a month for rent.


Guilty as charged.
:P
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#58 spanky123

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 12:02 PM

Well this is a reality in Victoria. Just contact housing outreach.
Gorge Rd. Traveller's Inns are frequented by homeless families.
Maybe you forgot about the young boy who died in one of those motels.
Motel families grow desperate:
http://www2.canada.c...5f-157fa14ba5f1
Do you know what welfare pays?
I'll let you guess before posting the answer.


You are missing the point.

No question there are people in need of affordable housing. My criticism was that taking an apartment that the Wing claims has a market price of $1050 a month and then reducing it to $900 a month is not going to make any difference to people on welfare who still cannot afford $900.

In my opinion is it not a fair trade for the $810K the taxpayer is going to cough up.

#59 Holden West

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 12:21 PM

^Yes, but those people moving into the Wing won't appear out of thin air. They will be vacating less desirable apartments elsewhere.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#60 Kapten Kapsell

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 05:06 PM

Should 'The Wing' be moved into the main section of the forum as it is no longer 'cancelled'?

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