387 replies to this topic

[lanforod]

Just from the snippet posted here, is it saying that if everyone on thr planet used the same resources as Saanich, we'd need 4 Earths to sustain it? Load of crap

[Victoria Watcher]

Just from the snippet posted here, is it saying that if everyone on thr planet used the same resources as Saanich, we'd need 4 Earths to sustain it? Load of crap

 

Somewhere in there it says 1/2 the habitable earth is productive farmland.  That might be somewhat true, although we can likely argue about what habitable land is.   The biggest problem is though, most farmland is not farmed efficiently.  

 

 

 

 

Toward the end of the 1980s, the divergence between Europe and the United States in terms of agricultural output became noticeable. While Europe has retained a steady agricultural production level since about 1985, the United States doubled its productivity between 1960 and the year 2000 and is on route to breaking the 150 percent productivity gain in the near future. Meanwhile, American agricultural inputs are slowly retracting to the levels of the 1960s, meaning the U.S is producing a much larger amount of food with fewer resources. For instance, in maize production, this means that the United States produces 70 bushels per hectare, while European countries make less than 50. 

 

https://thehill.com/...nd-sustainable/

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 05 November 2023 - 08:01 AM.

[Nparker]

I do all of my agricultural calculations using gas giant, Jupiter-type planets as my base point.

[Victoria Watcher]

In 2010, the year he obtained U.S. citizenship, the man transferred his interest in the family home to his wife because of restrictions regarding non-U.S. assets, the judgment said. 

 

But he had retained half ownership in the family business, P.H. Ltd., which had six hectares, or about six average city blocks, of property in the agricultural land reserve. 

 

Years later, the son, a land developer, discovered he couldn’t sell the land because of his father’s part-ownership and hired someone to find him. In 2018, he showed up unannounced in Roswell, told his father he was dying of cancer and that there was interest in the property, the judgment said. 

 

The man told his son to do what he wanted and that he had no plans to return to Canada, the judgment said. He agreed to sign away his rights to the company for $1 a share, or $53, and in a letter to his wife, he said: “I am gifting these shares to you.” 

 

The son was able to rezone the farmland, assessed at around $73,400 when the man left the family, and sold it for $28 million in 2021. The net proceeds were distributed to the wife, the family companies and those owned by the son and his wife, either as gifts or low-income loans, the judgment said. 

 

 

https://www.timescol...-assets-7894698

[Mike K.]

So it clearly is possible to remove land from the ALR. I wonder who gets the soft treatment, and who doesn’t? Seems to be sporadically applied (like at the airport, it gets removed when requested for things like strips malls, and now a hotel).

[TimM]

^my question would be from an income tax perspective.  As the land is a business it therefore should attract capital gains and I am really looking at the small 2 to 5 acre farms on the peninsula.  If say you bought your land for $200k and now sell it for $2 mil.  That's a large tax bill when you sell it.  Is it worth growing/selling that small amount of veggies or selling eggs in the end.  Yes you get a reduced property tax bill every year, but then you get a massive capital gain when you sell.  Seems like short term thinking to me, especially with how property values have skyrocketed these past 20-25 years

[lanforod]

There's a pretty hefty capital gains exemption that applies to farms ($1m+).

[TimM]

I just looked it up its $1 million even.  so back to my argument over the past 20-25 years those 2-5 acres farms on the peninsula you are looking at $1 million capital gain after the exemption because those properties are up a minimum $2 million in the last 25 years.  Half of that tax free so an extra $500k taxable income on sale and thats going on the highest tax bracket at 53.5% thats $267.5K in income tax.  Someone is going to have to sell a lot of eggs to pay that bill.  I know if it was me I would shut it down instantly

 

At least that is my take on it

[Victoria Watcher]

The guy took a $73,000 property and sold it for $28 million.

Despite taxes this guy made a freaking fortune.

[lanforod]

Yep. I never understood complaints about capital gains taxes. The more you pay, the more you made!

[Matt R.]

Sounds like a great problem to have.

[LJ]

I just looked it up its $1 million even.  so back to my argument over the past 20-25 years those 2-5 acres farms on the peninsula you are looking at $1 million capital gain after the exemption because those properties are up a minimum $2 million in the last 25 years.  Half of that tax free so an extra $500k taxable income on sale and thats going on the highest tax bracket at 53.5% thats $267.5K in income tax.  Someone is going to have to sell a lot of eggs to pay that bill.  I know if it was me I would shut it down instantly

 

At least that is my take on it

You just sold the property for a $1.8M gain, you can afford $267k in taxes and you are still up over $1.5m, sheesh.

[TimM]

You guys seem to be missing the point:

 

Option 1 - Grow veggies or sell eggs or what ever and pay $276K in capital gains

Option 2 - Bulldoze it all over, put in a beautiful lawn and pay $0 in capital gains when you sell because its not a business

 

I chose option 2, you would see the bulldozers roll up 1 minute after closing

[Mike K.]

But you’re paying an average of $20,000 in annual property taxes. Over 25 years, that’s $500k in taxation.

[TimM]

more like 8-9k

[Mike K.]

5 acres outside of the ALR? Don’t think so. $8-$9k is a quarter acre to one acre lot with a nice house.

2-5 usable acres is a $20-40,000 tax bill all day long. I was being generous with $20k. Land has huge carrying costs.

[Mike K.]

We’re talking farmable land, right? I’m not talking about 3 acres in East Sooke where it’s not possible to farm, very difficult if not impossible to build infrastructure to supply small lot subdivisions.

Farmland is developable if removed from the ALR, that’s why its property taxes are huge when removed.

[TimM]

Want to see my property tax bill because I have 2-5 acres of land on the peninsula

[Mike K.]

Sure let’s take a look.

[TimM]

I guess its hard to get satire on a website, but lets take a look at this house, not mine, but its a 6 bedroom, 7 bath house, ~6000 sq ft on 2.2 acres of land.  Plenty of houses like that around Central Saanich, I just chose one at random

 

https://www.bcassess...TAwMDBITlhBWg==

 

Property tax rates are here:  https://www.centrals.../tax-rates-2023

 

=$2,247,000 x $4.26571 = $9585 w/ no homeowner grant

 

Over to you show me where people pay people pay $40,000 in property tax for 2-5 acres of land.  Examples please