746 replies to this topic

[lanforod]

I think Ismo volunteered

[Ismo07]

Who wants to calculate the average taxation rate increase for us for 2013-2023?

 

We won't know what taxes per property are for 2023...  Budget is only being discussed.  Your 50-33% example is silly.  Listen to what Adam is telling you on CFAX...  Tax increase will be higher if they limit developments.  Budget will stay similar to what it is however.  Big difference.

[Ismo07]

Who wants to calculate the average taxation rate increase for us for 2013-2023?

 

Don’t forget to compound it!

 

 

I will look at actual property tax increase for any property you'd like from 2012 to 2022...  I look at the actual property tax however.  Real numbers are better to use.  But you'd rather use budget increase which is fine, it's just different.  It does tell a more fear story I guess which is what you are looking for.  So can you answer the question of Langford's 2013 budget compared to 2023?  What that increase?

[Mike K.]

Right. Let’s look at the annual tax increases.

Let’s use 2013-2023 to keep this uniform.

What was the property tax increase in 2013?

[Mike K.]

Don’t forget the sanitation and water cost increases 🤓

[Ismo07]

How’s that number crunching going?

What was the increase in:
2013
2014
2015?

Let’s just start with those three.

 

You are talking budget again...  I'm not looking that up as we aren't discussing the budget increase...  You haven't told me Langford's increase over the same 10 years yet.

Edited by Ismo07, 03 March 2023 - 10:30 AM.

[Mike K.]

No, I’m talking tax increases. Just taxes increases, per year.

 

You challenged me. The onus is on you to prove me wrong.

 

Let’s hurry this up, I don’t have all day.

[Ismo07]

No, I’m talking tax increases. Just taxes increases, per year.

You challenged me. The onus is on you to prove me wrong.

Let’s hurry this up, I don’t have all day.

 

I challenged you on a 50% tax increase.  You have yet to show me one property that has increased like that.  You want to make this about budget.  

[Mike K.]

2017: 3.1% (homeowners) 3.18% (businesses)

[Mike K.]

I challenged you on a 50% tax increase.

I’m doing all this work for you, for you to prove me wrong.

Run those numbers! Let’s goooo!

[Mike K.]

Edit: there! All done.

2013: 3.25% (I can’t find a breakdown for res/bus)
2014: 2.75%
2015: 2.3%
2016: 2.05% (corrected)
2017: 3.1%
2018: 4%
2019: 3.52% (added)
2020: 0% (added)
2021: 2.03%
2022: 3.89%
2013: 7-9%

[Ismo07]

Fill in the missing numbers please:

2013: 3.25% (I can’t find a breakdown for res/bus)
2014: 2.75%
2015: 2.3%
2016: 2.05% (corrected)
2017: 3.1%
2018: 4%
2019: 3.52% (added)
2020: 0% (added)
2021: 2.03%
2022: 3.89%
2013: 7-9%

 

I'm trying to find a property that taxes have increased by 50%

[Mike K.]

You are correct. I count 42%.

A zero % increase in 2020 was my downfall here. I humbly apologize, for claiming taxes rose 50%, and hold up 42% as an example of very good governance.

[Ismo07]

You are correct. I count 42%.

A zero % increase in 2020 was my downfall here. I humbly apologize, for claiming taxes rose 50%, and hold up 42% as an example of very good governance.

 

Most residential I've seen range 17-22ish% over the 10 years, interesting many commercial properties actually pay less now than they did in 2013...

 

So what was Langford's operating budget in 2013?  I'm pretty sure you will see a similar lift in that budget but it would be interesting.

Edited by Ismo07, 03 March 2023 - 11:15 AM.

[Mike K.]

Those are the residential tax increase rates per year.

[Ismo07]

Those are the residential tax increase rates per year.

 

Based on a proposed budget..  Those are not actual tax increases per residence.  I get it you like a number that looks bad, I like reality. 

[Mike K.]

You’re not supposed to talk about budgets.

I’m showing you what the City decided in each of those years, as the residential tax increase. 2023 is proposed, yes.

[Ismo07]

You’re not supposed to talk about budgets.

I’m showing you what the City decided in each of those years, as the residential tax increase. 2023 is proposed, yes.

 

Yes you are...  I'm just saying that increase is to the operating budget and no resident or commercial land owner has paid those increases in taxes...  You can keep screaming from the rooftops about 50% or 42% tax increases, I'm just saying when some one hears you say that they are thinking you are saying in 2013 someone paid $4,200 in taxes and in 2023 they paid $6,300.  It's just a poor way to illustrate it and it's incorrect.  People really care about the bottom line which is sorted out in the middle of the year and billed accordingly.

[Mike K.]

Yes you are... I'm just saying that increase is to the operating budget and no resident or commercial land owner has paid those increases in taxes... You can keep screaming from the rooftops about 50% or 42% tax increases, I'm just saying when some one hears you say that they are thinking you are saying in 2013 someone paid $4,200 in taxes and in 2023 they paid $6,300. It's just a poor way to illustrate it and it's incorrect. People really care about the bottom line which is sorted out in the middle of the year and billed accordingly.

Ok, I see why you’re confused here.

You’re using the whole taxation package in your property tax calculations. That’s not how you calculate the taxes.

You have to split out the municipal portion. Property taxes include a whole bevy of fees and costs not associated to the municipality, like transit taxes, school taxes, library taxes, etc, that don’t ebb and flow in sync with the municipal increases.

[GaryOak]

Adjusted for inflation, my math may be wrong, it has increased by about 15%