746 replies to this topic

[Ismo07]

Ok, I see why you’re confused here.

You’re using the whole taxation package in your property tax calculations. That’s not how you calculate the taxes.

You have to split out the municipal portion. Property taxes include a whole bevy of fees and costs not associated to the municipality, like transit taxes, school taxes, library taxes, etc, that don’t ebb and flow in sync with the municipal increases.

 

So you are suggesting that the through the whole bevy of fees only property taxes are increasing and those other ones are decreasing?  C'mon, yeah they go up differently but I don't believe they go down.  I don't feel confused, but I see what you are talking about in that respect but those go up every year as well don't they?   You think all those fees dropped so much that my property tax increase went from 42% to 17%..

[Mike K.]

I can’t speak for the other ones, but the municipal portion is just a fraction of the whole thing.

[Ismo07]

I can’t speak for the other ones, but the municipal portion is just a fraction of the whole thing.

 

Well the municipal portion is a large portion, larger when you take into account the basic grant which subtracts the school..  Anyway you won't scare me trying to convince me my taxes will go up by that much... Tax increase will be sorted out around May... 

[Mike K.]

The school rates aren’t set by the City of Victoria.

Not trying to scare you, but the reality is what it is, and once everything is sorted in May, you’ll be paying ~40% more in municipal tax than you paid in 2013 (I fully retract my 50% claim!).

Looking through my taxes, the sewer rate I pay hasn’t changed in several years. It’s a higher cost than the municipal tax. But it’s an example of how not everything on your property tax bill has to change. The municipal portion definitely does.

[Mike K.]

Adjusted for inflation, my math may be wrong, it has increased by about 15%

I’m not sure if that’s how you calculate the adjustment.

But you should also adjust for housing unit growth, commercial space growth, DCC costs, water revenues, leasing revenues and parking revenues, and see how it all plays out.

[lanforod]

Silly thing is, I think you're both right.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong:

Even if you break out the municipal portions, you're still not likely to find a property that has actually had to pay an increase on the municipal portion of 42% over the 10 years. That's because what you actually pay is affected by the mill rate, and the mill rate is calculated based on what the budget actually needs. It fluctuates based on your actual property value (by BC Assessment) as well as new properties added to the system. 

Edited by lanforod, 03 March 2023 - 01:28 PM.

[Mike K.]

They’ll usually break it down for an average household, so they’ll tell you “an average residence will pay $x in additional tax.”

It’s a science, and yes you do pay that extra 40%. It’s just very good at hiding among everything else.

[Mike K.]

My BCAssessment levy has increased 40% just between 2019 and 2022.

[Mike K.]

The sewer fee exactly 5% between 2019 and 2022.

[lanforod]

^thats shitty

[Ismo07]

My BCAssessment levy has increased 40% just between 2019 and 2022.

 

This has nothing to do with municipal tax increases due to budget...  You muni just collects...

 

 

They’ll usually break it down for an average household, so they’ll tell you “an average residence will pay $x in additional tax.”

It’s a science, and yes you do pay that extra 40%. It’s just very good at hiding among everything else.

 

No you don't.   Math is too hard to hide...

[Mike K.]

This has nothing to do with municipal tax increases due to budget...  You muni just collects...

 

 

 

No you don't.   Math is too hard to hide...

 

[FogPub]

What does this municipal taxation argument have to do with UVic?

[Mike K.]

That it is possible for a government institution to lower a budget.

[lanforod]

Yep that’s what started the discussion. Modern governments sure don’t seem to ever tighten the belt anymore.

[GaryOak]

Oh yes because austerity has worked so well in the past.

[Nparker]

A little austerity couldn't hurt.

...Canada’s projected combined government debt (the federal debt and the provincial debt of all 10 provinces) nearly doubled since 2007/08, the year before the last recession, but the combined debt now equals 74.6 per cent of the Canadian economy...

https://financialpos...nt) and 2022/23.

Government debt in Canada increased to $1.134 Trillion in 2022 from $1.049 Trillion in 2021 - $85 billion dollars in one year.

[GaryOak]

I could definitely see us cutting some fat here and there (i.e work from home). But that wouldn't decrease the debt by much without making life worse for everybody and especially lower class Canadians. One way we could raise more cash could be to sell off some government assets. For instance selling off BC ferries, tolls coming back to the Coquihalla and the Alex Fraser, or have the power grid run like in Texas and California where brown outs aren't unheard-of. In the end you either increase taxation in a controlled manner or people end up getting taxed other ways that often effect the people who can't afford it the most.

Edited by GaryOak, 05 March 2023 - 01:00 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

I could definitely see a streaming some fat here and there (i.e work from home). But that wouldn't decrease the debt by much without making life worse for everybody and especially lower class Canadians. One way we could raise more cash could be to sell off some government assets. For instance selling off BC ferries, tolls coming back to the Coquihalla and the Alex Fraser, or have the power grid run like in Texas and California where brown outs aren't unheard-of.

You’re right. It’s good for us to have a bloated public service, high taxes.

[GaryOak]

Sorry about that edited it a bit after posting thought everyone else was asleep