308 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

The City of Victoria's recent removal of an eastward lane on Bay Street between Bridge Street and Douglas Street causes backups right up to the Ellice Bridge now. Before traffic became heavy only near John Street through to Government.

During peak driving periods Bay is now backed up in both directions between Government and the bridge. I would say this was a very poor move by the City.

That's an awful lot closer to the everyone-leaving-the-downtown-office-at-once epicenter than Shelbourne from Hillside to McKenzie is though. I don't think two lanes would be the end of the world.

[Mike K.]

I'm talking about Bay Street eastward, not westward. The rush of everyone-leaving-the-downtown-office-at-once doesn't apply.

[VicHockeyFan]

I'm talking about Bay Street eastward, not westward. The rush of everyone-leaving-the-downtown-office-at-once doesn't apply.

Would you believe... everyone-going-to-the-office-at-once?

[jklymak]

^ I agree that directions and timing matter. I would guess that was done on Shelbourne, but it would be interesting to see the numbers rather than the daily totals.

As for Bay Street, I guess I don't understand why there is now a problem, and I certainly don't understand why removing a lane in the Eastbound direction would tie traffic up in both directions. Are you sure something else hasn't changed?

[Mike K.]

What happened was the removal of one of two lanes heading towards Government and the addition of a left-hand turn lane at Government. Crossing Government, Bay becomes two lanes once again but the left-hand lane is much shorter than the right-hand lane to make space for a westward left-turn lane on Bay at Government.

So what happens now is instead of through-traffic occupying two lanes all vehicles, except the few turning left onto Government, are now funneled into one. Ever since that was done, and it was a very recent project, actually, the congestion has become very pronounced during the afternoon hours (even before rush hour that road now gets backed up).

Unlike Fort where there are no major obstacles to the flow of traffic between Cook and Oak Bay Junction (where half the traffic veers onto Oak Bay, the other half continues straight) and no bridge that funnels traffic onto the artery, Bay Street also has a light at Bridge Street, then at Government, then at Douglas.

[Baro]

I hate driving down Shelbourne between hillside and university heights. it feels like an old video game where you have to constantly move left and right, changing lanes to avoid cyclists taking up the whole lane in the right, or people suddenly stopping to turn left without signaling ahead of time in the left lane. There's so much useless "green space" on both sides, I wish they'd widen the road and add bike lanes and maybe the odd left turn lane.

I know it's not their fault but I get so angry at cyclists taking up a whole lane and causing a massive traffic snarl behind them. I know when I ride my bike on roads like that I just get on the sidewalk. Less potential road rage behind me, better safety.

The worst though is when bikes screw over buses. Bus is stuck behind a bike and finally manages to pass it, only to have to pull into a stop ahead and now has to wait for the bike to pass lest the bus cut the bike off. Bus pulls back out, is stuck behind the bike but finally passes it, only to have to pull into a stop. The result is that the bus ends up being slowing than riding a bike! I've missed connections due to this and ended up just driving, thanks cyclists. Bikes and buses should be on the same team getting people out of their cars, but end up being mortal enemies due to poor infrastructure and laws.

[jklymak]

^

1) its illegal to ride your bike on a sidewalk in Saanich and Victoria.

2) its illegal because its really dangerous - no one expects someone to be doing 25 km/h on a sidewalk, drivers can't see you, and you are a hazard to pedestrians.

3) While I agree buses and bikes are a terrible mix, the solution isn't to tell bikes to get off the road. Its to have a proper bike lane separate from the lane buses use.

If you want to keep Shelbourne two lanes in each direction w/o widening the road, then you have to deal with bikes taking a lane, because otherwise they'll get killed. Maybe going 20 km/h is better than not having a lane at all?

[jklymak]

So what happens now is instead of through-traffic occupying two lanes all vehicles, except the few turning left onto Government, are now funneled into one. Ever since that was done, and it was a very recent project, actually, the congestion has become very pronounced during the afternoon hours (even before rush hour that road now gets backed up).

OK, I still don't understand why that slows down traffic in two directions, but maybe I'm not following your explanation.

Regardless, I'd say Shelbourne has a lot more in common with Fort (long stretches, few lights), than Bay from Bridge to Douglas where there is a light every block. That being said, I bet the traffic regulates itself in a month - i.e. people redistribute the load, or maybe more people will bike!

[gumgum]

I think with the correct placement of turning lanes and bus stops they could make two main lanes work. I would to like see it done, but my guess it would be incredibly expensive to do right.

They should just admit that they don't have the money to pay for it.

[phx]

I think with the correct placement of turning lanes and bus stops they could make two main lanes work. I would to like see it done, but my guess it would be incredibly expensive to do right.

Why would it be incredibly expensive? It's all level; no bridges involved.

[Bingo]

^
If you want to keep Shelbourne two lanes in each direction w/o widening the road, then you have to deal with bikes taking a lane, because otherwise they'll get killed. Maybe going 20 km/h is better than not having a lane at all?

It's crazy to try and ride a bike on Shelbourne between hillside and Cedar hill Cross Road.

Why not run a dedicated bike along the parallel route that includes the Browning/Bowker Creek pathway?

[gumgum]

Why would it be incredibly expensive? It's all level; no bridges involved.

There would have to be a lot of dedicated left and right turn lanes for one. It would take a lot of traffic studies to figure out how long each turning lane should be. Not mentIon how to intergrate bus stops. All this and figuring out how the bike lanes fit safely into the mix.

Every intersection would have to be reconfigured.

Even just resurfacing, painting and signing would cost a fortune.

Landscaping for that length would be a huge bill right there.

[Mike K.]

OK, I still don't understand why that slows down traffic in two directions, but maybe I'm not following your explanation.

Prior to re-engineering the road eastward, westward Bay has always been busy because of peak traffic heading west outside of the urban core. The Bay Street Bridge, being a funnel, just causes long backups that can stretch to Government street on any given afternoon.

But now with reducing the lane to one along Bay eastward the road is now congested in both directions during times of heavier traffic and on some days even before the rush starts (~2PM).

[phx]

There would have to be a lot of dedicated left and right turn lanes for one. It would take a lot of traffic studies to figure out how long each turning lane should be. Not mentIon how to intergrate bus stops. All this and figuring out how the bike lanes fit safely into the mix.

Every intersection would have to be reconfigured.

Even just resurfacing, painting and signing would cost a fortune.

Landscaping for that length would be a huge bill right there.

An elevated freeway would be incredibly expensive. Pavement and traffic islands would not bankrupt Saanich.

[gumgum]

I think you might be forgetting how long Saanich's Shelbourne is.

I didn't say it would bankrupt Saanich btw.

[phx]

I think you might be forgetting how long Saanich's Shelbourne is.

It's 0.43% of the roads in Saanich.

[gumgum]

Yeah that would be really low if there were no non-arterial roads in Saanich.

[Mike K.]

Shelbourne between N. Dairy and Felthan is exactly 3km long.

When Saanich decides to start work on the road motorists and residents can expect as lengthy, costly and involved a project as what recently happened on Craigflower in Esquimalt, and that stretch is only 2km long (btwn Tillicum and Admirals) and likely carries less traffic throughout the day than Shelbourne.

[sdwright.vic]

All we need is more traffic calming. Esquimalt did all of Esquimalt Rd, now its grid lock from the base to Lampson 5 days a week starting at 3:00 and people of decide to start using 30K side streets as cross town corridors at 60K that are not even "really" streets (more like just really long drive ways).

[Lover Fighter]

Shelbourne between N. Dairy and Felthan is exactly 3km long.

When Saanich decides to start work on the road motorists and residents can expect as lengthy, costly and involved a project as what recently happened on Craigflower in Esquimalt, and that stretch is only 2km long (btwn Tillicum and Admirals) and likely carries less traffic throughout the day than Shelbourne.

Unfortunately (or perhaps luckily for motorists?), Saanich has not budgeted anything for the implementation of whatever this plan recommends. Despite being labelled an "action plan", this is nothing but a concept plan. Once the plan is finalized, it will be up to the adjacent property owners to build up to the plan's standards when they develop their properties. Unless Saanich follows this plan up with a much more expensive Saanich Corridor Implementation Plan, we can expect to see fragmented upgrades along the street as new developments go up.