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Derelict boats on The Gorge/Brentwood/Oak Bay/Cad Bay


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#21 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:12 AM

 There are costs associated with keeping boats moored at a marina just like there are costs associated with occupying a home.

 

For hundreds of people living in shelters like Rock Bay Landing and Our Place, they have zero costs for a home.  Plus they get free meals.  Plus we pay staff and operating costs at those places through taxes, and for many of their guests, we also pay for their daily methadone (that's hundreds of dollars a month each).  Then some of them supplement their income by braking into homes and cars.

 

Those people require way more resources than the handful of people living in a few boats on the Gorge.


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#22 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:13 AM

Right, and clearly the City of Victoria doesn't want those boats moored there otherwise there wouldn't be a controversy, would there. Ditto for Oak Bay and the issues they're having with their own little water world.

 

Just because the city says they don't want those boats there, doesn't mean they have any right to have them removed.


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#23 Mike K.

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 10:29 AM

Just because federal laws inhibit doing the right thing doesn't mean what they inhibit is right or just.


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#24 Mike K.

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 02:45 PM

I should also add that with shelters and services for homeless individuals there is oversight and there is control. We pay for that oversight and we have services in place that are well managed, serve a purpose and produce a result we as a society have decided we want these agencies/services to produce.

 

With these waterworlds there is no oversight, there is no control, there is only reaction to incidents by the City's taxpayers.


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#25 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 03:29 PM

I should also add that with shelters and services for homeless individuals there is oversight and there is control. We pay for that oversight and we have services in place that are well managed, serve a purpose and produce a result we as a society have decided we want these agencies/services to produce.

 

With these waterworlds there is no oversight, there is no control, there is only reaction to incidents by the City's taxpayers.

 

Most homeless do not stay in shelters, most sleep on private property like doorways and back lots with no permission, and certainly don't pay property tax.  I'm happy to have a few seek quiet refuge on the Gorge.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#26 LJ

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:10 PM

 Then some of them supplement their income by braking into homes and cars.

 

I wish they would stop doing that.


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#27 Bingo

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:36 PM

Most homeless do not stay in shelters, most sleep on private property like doorways and back lots with no permission, and certainly don't pay property tax.  I'm happy to have a few seek quiet refuge on the Gorge.

 

I wonder if the body they fished out of the Gorge a few weeks ago was one of those boaters?

I never heard the end of that story.



#28 Holden West

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 08:18 PM

Then some of them supplement their income by braking into homes and cars.

 

 

I'd rather they brake into homes than leave their foot on the gas and drive straight through them.

 

I acknowledge the nuisance these boaters cause but I also am aware that Victoria has always had its share of misfits, drifters, f-ups, flighty dreamers and other assorted fringe dwellers. Generally, they're able to support themselves. A hundred years ago you might find them on the fringe of town in tin shacks or fleabag hotels. But those accomodations are extinct and the last frontier is the water. A homeless shelter is an expensive and inappropriate place for them.


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#29 Mike K.

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:02 AM

Most homeless do not stay in shelters, most sleep on private property like doorways and back lots with no permission, and certainly don't pay property tax. I'm happy to have a few seek quiet refuge on the Gorge.


Like I said, out of sight, out of mind. You may be happy but the residents affected are not.

The City is well aware of the sorts of issues these communities bring with them and that is the reason why it tried to ban camping in parks. Unfortunately it's hands are tied with "water world."

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#30 Redd42

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:12 PM

I'm happy to have a few seek quiet refuge on the Gorge.

 

Right next to all the squatting boaters is Banfield Park with lots of green lawn. So would you be fine with them putting up shacks or tents in the park? Why do you feel it is ok to squat on the water but not in the park?



#31 G-Man

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:50 PM

People are allowed to camp in parks they just have to pack up by 7am. On the water there is no one to offend. I say let them live there.


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#32 Mr_E_Squirrel

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:33 PM

https://victoria.civ...t.aspx?ID=70095 Aug 28 Council meeting

 

Council is to consider rezoning to clarify the primary use intended for this area is parks and uses accessory to parks

 

1.

890E0414EE3241A79D15E5DE8A2517E8-Victori

Zoning Regulation Bylaw, Amendment Bylaw (No. 999) - No. 14-059

To rezone the land and land covered by water known as the Selkirk Waterway and Gorge Waterway from the R1-B, Single Family Dwelling District, R-2, Two Family Dwelling District, T-1, Limited Transient Accommodation District, M-3, Heavy Industrial District and R-12, Gorge Road Multiple Dwelling District Zones, to the GWP Zone, Gorge Waterway Park District, to permit the Gorge Waterway to be used only for a park and uses ancillary to a park as well as water related recreational activities.

 

New Zone:GWP Zone, Gorge Waterway Park District

Property Description:Part of the land and land covered by water known as the Selkirk Waterway and Gorge Waterway

Existing Zone: R1-B, Single Family Dwelling District

R-2, Two Family Dwelling District

T-1, Limited Transient Accommodation District

M-3, Heavy Industrial District

R-12, Gorge Road Multiple Dwelling District

 



#33 sdwright.vic

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 05:21 AM

People are allowed to camp in parks they just have to pack up by 7am. On the water there is no one to offend. I say let them live there.


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#34 G-Man

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 06:14 AM

What impact does this change have on homeowners with boats and any visitors with boats?

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#35 dasmo

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 07:00 AM

Yep, it just got out of hand. When it was the one nice boat it was invisible. Then the other one showed up and then the third and it became interesting. Then the junk boat arrived and it became news. Then more junk boats arrived and it became an eyesoar. Then the boats started burning and sinking. The garbage started dumping and the fighting started and it became a problem. Those early birds should have staked their claim and kept the rest out. I was all for it but I am also for my rights to enjoy the space. I don't want to to see a crazy waterworld grow and grow on the George. Maybe they should just introduce a density by law?

#36 dasmo

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 07:03 AM

I might add I believe in the fundamental right to sleep. I think our park battle settled at the perfect compromise. Sleep there but you can't take it over. Simple and fair. The same essence should apply to this public space.

#37 Mike K.

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 08:52 AM

For sure. It's a far cry from what it was 15 years ago and some of the people there have absolutely no respect for those living within earshot of their festivities or those who have to look at the garbage they dump on the shore.

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#38 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 08:58 AM

So if I live in a tiny basement suite near the park, and for whatever reason, the landlord does not let me use their garage bins, do you make moves to evict me because I leave garbage in a nearby park?  

 

Is there any sound reason to think that if you evict the boaters, they will start using the proper garbage procedures at their next home (be it an apartment, homeless shelter, or the streets and parks, if I'm homeless)?  The first he likely can't afford, and the last two, taxpayers will be cleaning up after him anyway, and also paying his rent if it's the shelter.


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#39 Mike K.

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 09:00 AM

Surely you're joking?

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#40 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 09:07 AM

Surely you're joking?

 

I'm more playing devil's advocate.  At least one or two people will be evicted here and they are not the problem.  But we will "solve" it by banning all.  And in the end, we likely pay more taxes to take care of the evictees than by cleaning the park each morning.   

 

Ever seen the garbage left behind after Canada Day here, or in Vancouver after fireworks contest nights?  Disgusting, caused by few, as a percentage of attendees, but no reason to cancel them.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

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