717 replies to this topic

[sebberry]

If you are concerned about privacy, why are you OK with some stranger coming onto your property every few months, doing who knows what? Seems the larger privacy concern to me.

By "stranger" I assume you mean meter reader. I'm not sure what information he's able to collect other than what numbers the dials on the meter are pointing at.

[jonny]

Look at the other links..

Ok....

.The problem isn't the meters themselves, but instead what's happening to electrical wiring.

Nothing to see here folks....move along now.

[VicHockeyFan]

Energy consumption patterns are a pretty good reflection of one's activities at home. Knowing when people are home, away, what appliances they're using at the time is a goldmine of information for marketers to drool over, but they'll have to wait until people start using "Smart appliances'.

Why are so many people upset about being "marketed to"? If my Safeway card tells them that I like Crest toothpaste, who cares? Maybe they'll tell me when it's on sale. Isn't that a good thing?

[sebberry]

Why are so many people upset about being "marketed to"? If my Safeway card tells them that I like Crest toothpaste, who cares? Maybe they'll tell me when it's on sale. Isn't that a good thing?

I'm more against having my purchases and habits tracked. That's why I didn't register my safeway card

[rjag]

Why are so many people upset about being "marketed to"? If my Safeway card tells them that I like Crest toothpaste, who cares? Maybe they'll tell me when it's on sale. Isn't that a good thing?

Because some people value their personal privacy. So for some this is an intrusion that they have no control over. Its not like they can switch providers.

I personally refuse to play the game of Thirftys cards or Safeway cards etc for that very reason. When you sign up for one of these cards your buying habits are tracked and sold forward to other marketing firms which just adds to all the spam in the world, not to forget this could all be combined with your health profile and that would be really scary.

BC Hydro smart meters dont really bother me but what does bother me is that they arent telling the truth about TOU billing.....that bothers me. Perhaps if all the talking heads that keep telling us that TOU is not being considered put their money where their mouth is and promise to pay $100k each if they lied plus quit their jobs then I might believe them. But they wont so I dont...

[jonny]

Lots of things in life are tracked by different organizations.

IThe list of organizations that are currently tracking my purchases and habits is huge. It includes my employer, my professional association, financial institutions, VISA, insurers, telecom providers, grocery stores, rewards programs, airlines, my dentist, my physiotherapist, heck even my mechanic tracks my business with him and sends me reminders that my oil change is overdue! The Ministry of Health tracks my health care utilization.

So what? Are any of these an invasion of my privacy? No. Not all information is private.

[sebberry]

Lots of things in life are tracked by different organizations.

IThe list of organizations that are currently tracking my purchases and habits is huge. It includes my employer, my professional association, financial institutions, VISA, insurers, telecom providers, grocery stores, rewards programs, airlines, my dentist, my physiotherapist, heck even my mechanic tracks my business with him and sends me reminders that my oil change is overdue! The Ministry of Health tracks my health care utilization.

So what? Are any of these an invasion of my privacy? No. Not all information is private.

Yes, but some of that information we give over voluntarily. If you don't want your grocery purchases tracked, don't register your club card. If you don't want other items tracked, don't use your VISA card. You have options.

But if I don't want the number of hours I do laundry tracked - I don't have other options.

[Baro]

Do your laundry by hand? Generate your own electricity?

[rjag]

Lots of things in life are tracked by different organizations.

So what? Are any of these an invasion of my privacy? No. Not all information is private.

Thats your opinion, you are entitled to it. But where to draw the line? and whose decision is it? yours or ....? Who decides that your food purchases may be linked to your health profile so they can track why your cholesterol isnt improving.....who decides if thats invading your privacy? Or the info is shared with your insurance company and they determine that they wont cover you for diabetes becasue you purchased too much sugar last year? (sounds frivolouos but I'm trying to make a point) What about the income you declare compared to the money you spend? Who decides to link that together to see if you are being forthright on your taxes....?

You see you may not care, but I do. I have nothing to hide but I also deserve the right not to have to be scrutinised as well.

[jklymak]

BC Hydro smart meters dont really bother me but what does bother me is that they arent telling the truth about TOU billing.....that bothers me. Perhaps if all the talking heads that keep telling us that TOU is not being considered put their money where their mouth is and promise to pay $100k each if they lied plus quit their jobs then I might believe them. But they wont so I dont...

I don't know what the talking heads say, but the BC Hydro SmartMeter FAQ is pretty clear that TOU billing is being considered, just not right now.

[jklymak]

But if I don't want the number of hours I do laundry tracked - I don't have other options.

Go to a laundromat?

How would BC hydro know you are doing laundry, in particular? Write an algorithm to track your particular machine's power cycles, and then scan all your data? Seems like a lot of work, and not really possible if they are only getting hourly reports.

Compared to other myriad possible invasions of privacy (you do know all your email is wide open to the public, right?), this one seems pretty mild.

[LJ]

I don't know what the talking heads say, but the BC Hydro SmartMeter FAQ is pretty clear that TOU billing is being considered, just not right now.

The spokesman for Hydro stated today that TOU is not presently being implemented and if they want to do so in the future they will have to apply to the BC Utilities commission for authority to implement it and hold public information meetings prior to actually doing so.

[jklymak]

^ Right, I'm no PR hack, but that sounds a lot like "TOU billing coming soon" to me, not "TOU is not being considered".

[Holden West]

"Time of use" billing is used for everything from draft beer to hotel rooms so what's the big deal?

[phx]

Check this out: Smart meters reveal what you're watching

[Bingo]

It's the information age. Some people lay out their whole life and dirty laundry on Facebook, so who cares if Hydro wants to know that stuff too.

[jonny]

rjag is right...I don't really care. This seems like one of those things that is much ado about nothing. I do think you guys are being a bit neurotic though. Maybe it's a generational thing?

BC Hydro can track whatever electricity consumption information they want from me.

I do think it would be awesome if Thrifty's sent me an email every week saying "here are the items you often purchase that are on sale this week".

[sebberry]

It's the information age. Some people lay out their whole life and dirty laundry on Facebook, so who cares if Hydro wants to know that stuff too.

Because not all of us lay out our whole life on facebook?

[Baro]

Electricity is something we all buy and use, it's not like using facebook or buying some product at a shop we can just decide not to use. Limited to only the pure amount of electricity used and generally when is completely reasonable, but it is a slippery slope to them monitoring what we are using. It's not at all in the realm of tinfoil paranoia to think the government would eventually try to use this to unreasonably invade our privacy if given the chance, every day we have to defend our rights that are constantly being eroded.

Harper wants the right to watch everything we do online and have access to our computers, without warrent or due process, all in the name of terrorism and crime fighting and copyright enforcement. I'm sure they'd love to know every appliance and electrical device we have and and when we use it as well. To know exactly when we leave the house, which rooms we use and when, what a great tool for the police and the good guys. But don't worry, only criminals and terrorists need to worry!

Technologies like this can be an improvement, but history has proven that if there is any possibility of the government using a law or technology to surveil or generally snoop on its citiziens it will exploit it to the maximum. Smart meters can work, but we need to make sure there are strict and robust privacy laws governoring their use, and that we don't all meekly roll over if Harper or his kind shout "crime fighting!" or "terrorism!".

[jklymak]

I'm sure they'd love to know every appliance and electrical device we have and and when we use it as well. To know exactly when we leave the house, which rooms we use and when, what a great tool for the police and the good guys.

OK, except SmartMeters can't do these things, so why bring all this up?

Limited to only the pure amount of electricity used and generally when is completely reasonable, but it is a slippery slope to them monitoring what we are using.

How would they determine what we are using? And really, why would they care? Do terrorists run their dishwashers at odd hours?

Given all the real privacy concerns out there, that you outline, this has to be the crappiest way to gather intelligence about someone. Given that all your mail goes through the postal service, your phone calls through a single land line carrier, and your internet through a government-controlled internet backbone, and your TV viewing habits through a digitized box that tells the cable company what you are watching and when, how is knowing your hourly electricity use a big deal?