49 replies to this topic

[bicycles]

The crooks will always have guns. Banning them from entering the country? Smuggling. If the criminals can have guns to rob me, why can't I have one to defend myself and my family?

oh yeah, because getting into a shoot out with a criminal is a great way to defend your family...

edit: also, it's much harder to smuggle something metal and solid into the country then something like drugs which can take various forms.

[sebberry]

oh yeah, because getting into a shoot out with a criminal is a great way to defend your family...
.

You're right. Better to watch the home invader come up the stairs with a bat, club me, beat my kids and rape my wife than to aim a gun at him before he gets past the front door...

[bicycles]

You're right. Better to watch the home invader come up the stairs with a bat, club me, beat my kids and rape my wife than to aim a gun at him before he gets past the front door...

you're not going to stop crazy people with a gun. at least with a bat, you might have a chance to fight him off. everyone could take some self defense courses. i'd rather take my chances against someone with a bat then someone who has a gun as I'm sure would most people.

would you prefer it if every country in the world had a nuclear weapon, or only a small few that would only use it in the most extreme circumstances and were entrusted with that right? it's the same thing.

[LJ]

I don't expect criminals to turn in their guns, I have a problem with them ever being manufactured in the first place. I think an all out ban from them entering the country, being sold in the country, would help go a long way to stopping gun violence. Obviously, it's not going to be completely fullproof but I don't see any reason why someone who has a sudden urge to kill some people can go out to the store and buy a gun. Sure, there are people who use the law as it should be, but there are also those who abuse it. It's not worth it to me.

Or even foolproof, a subject I assume from your postings, that you are intimately familiar with.

[sebberry]

you're not going to stop crazy people with a gun. at least with a bat, you might have a chance to fight him off. everyone could take some self defense courses. i'd rather take my chances against someone with a bat then someone who has a gun as I'm sure would most people.

I too would rather take my chances against someone with a bat, however I don't have any control over what weapon that someone chooses to use. So if he does have a gun, I'd rather not be the one with the bat.

[dirtydeeds]

Those of you who already have the good sense to be respectful of the natural right of law-abiding citizens to do as they see fit so long as they don't violate the rights of others can go to the same place to enjoy the sweet sensation of having been right all along.

I love enjoying sweet sensations!
Thanks for the link Davek!

[bicycles]

Or even foolproof, a subject I assume from your postings, that you are intimately familiar with.

Ah the old "attack something unrelated because you don't have a sensible arguement" trick. Very clever.

[bicycles]

I too would rather take my chances against someone with a bat, however I don't have any control over what weapon that someone chooses to use. So if he does have a gun, I'd rather not be the one with the bat.

You do have a choice if guns aren't readily available to criminals. I also don't believe someone who robs a home would have the resources to smuggle guns.

[VicHockeyFan]

oh yeah, because getting into a shoot out with a criminal is a great way to defend your family...

edit: also, it's much harder to smuggle something metal and solid into the country then something like drugs which can take various forms.

Don't you think that criminals would think long and hard about the idea of breaking into a home if they knew the homeowner was very likely to be trained and armed? I'm sure they would...

[Bernard]

I find the debate for and against completely out there.

People having guns has never had any impact on deterring crime. People having guns or not has never stopped dictators.

Gun violence is very limited and basically no threat to the general public. There is no correlations that can be made between gun control laws, or not, and gun violence.

There are many people who like to shoot guns, they enjoy it and it does no harm to anyone else. Watch almost any episode of Mythbusters to see the fun they have with guns.

Rifles are functionally useless for use in crime or defend yourself from anyone unless you have a bayonet on it. If you need a rifle to hit someone because of distance, this is not self defense.

The gun registry has been in place in one form or another for 80 years. I can not imagine a cop is making their decisions based on what is within the registry. I would assume it is prudent of a cop to assume that there is a good chance of a handgun being on site.

What we have a clash of two cultures, the urban and the rural. The registering rifles is over kill as it is not needed, but on the other hand it is not a big deal to have to deal with.

[bicycles]

Don't you think that criminals would think long and hard about the idea of breaking into a home if they knew the homeowner was very likely to be trained and armed? I'm sure they would...

Criminals don't think long and hard; they are desperate and irrational for the most part. Are you suggesting that everyone in Canada becomes trained in gun use and armed? so your suggestion to help deter crime is to teach everyone how to kill each other more efficiently and give them the means to do it?

[jklymak]

Don't you think that criminals would think long and hard about the idea of breaking into a home if they knew the homeowner was very likely to be trained and armed? I'm sure they would...

Yes, and the conclusion they will reach is that if confronted they must shoot first.

By your logic, burglaries would be less prevalent in the US where handgun ownership is more prevalent. Yet Seattle's rate is 13/1000 people, whereas Vancouver's is 8/1000.

On the other hand, Vancouver's murder rate is 3.2/100k people, whereas Seattle's is 5.1/100k.

So I'm not seeing the advantages to owning a handgun, but I am seeing the disadvantages...

[LJ]

Rifles are functionally useless for use in crime or defend yourself from anyone unless you have a bayonet on it. If you need a rifle to hit someone because of distance, this is not self defense.

But shucking a round into a 12 gauge can be quite effective, and you don't even have to fire it.

[davek]

Are you suggesting that everyone in Canada becomes trained in gun use and armed?

Like that cesspool of crime, Switzerland?

I see the prohibitionists here haven't bothered to visit the link I posted, which disproves all the arguments they are making. That's okay, because there's a lot of material there, and let's face it, reading is hard! So here is a video by the great libertarian journalist http://www.youtube.c...?v=fFVH_1r8qjI'>John Stossel.

Those who already support the right of gay men to defend themselves from bashing, women to defend themselves from rape and domestic violence, and minorities to defend themselves from racists should go ahead and watch it too, just so you can see that your moral stance also has good utilitarian outcomes.

[jklymak]

Like that cesspool of crime, Switzerland?

Switzerland has a gun registry, and only security guards can carry handguns. The training during compulsory military service only serves to make the general public better educated. I'd be fine if you wanted to make everyone a member of a highly trained, highly regulated militia subject to strict penalties for the improper transport and storage of their militia weapons.

[davek]

Switzerland has a gun registry,

That's not the point. I mentioned Switzerland to demonstrate to bicycles that having everyone in the country trained in the use of firearms and armed doesn't necessarily have adverse overall consequences.

... and only security guards can carry handguns.

Sorry, that's not true. Although gun carrying permits are issued mostly to people working in security, others can and do get them, and both handguns and long guns may be transported in public as long as appropriate justification is present. http://en.wikipedia....in_Switzerland'>link

I'd be fine if you wanted to make everyone a member of a highly trained, highly regulated militia subject to strict penalties for the improper transport and storage of their militia weapons.

Compulsory military service is a form of slavery, so I certainly don't endorse conscription, nor do I understand why you would "be fine" with it.

Law-abiding people have a natural right to own a firearm if they want one and that right should be respected. It is worth noting that those who oppose firearms ownership must rely on government coercion to accomplish their goals, because their arguments are unpersuasive in the face of http://www.davekopel...v/lrstlupl.htm'>all the http://catalogue.gvp...&searchscope=1'>evidence.

[jklymak]

^ Yes Dave, government curtails the rights of individuals for the good of society as a whole. You keep using that as an argument like its a bad thing.

[davek]

^ Yes Dave, government curtails the rights of individuals for the good of society as a whole. You keep using that as an argument like its a bad thing.

You are begging the question by asserting government curtailment of individual rights is for the good of society as a whole. It the the defence of individual rights that benefits society as a whole.

So for those who are keeping score, the regulation and prohibition advocates here have so far endorsed the government curtailment of human rights, slavery by way of conscription, prosecuting gun owners for conspiracy to commit murder, and the criminalization of gays, women, and minorities who would arm themselves for self-defense. They have done so while ignoring the evidence I have provided that respecting the right of self-defense through the use of firearms is not only morally correct, but also has positive utilitarian outcomes. Stay tuned.

[Baro]

You heard it here folks. If you support gun registries you support slavery and the wholesale slaughter of gays, women, and minorities.

[jklymak]

^^ Thats quite a few strawmen you constructed there. Have fun shooting them down.

[Edit:

^ Ha ha!]