518 replies to this topic

[Holden West]

Er, sounds good but shouldn't we have had this up and running like, 50 years ago?

[G-Man]

It would be better if it was just regular police services I mean it isn't in the big cases that there is a problem with integration it is the day to day work downtown that is using up our police force's capacity.

[Galvanized]

This latest news is better than nothing I suppose but I still think it would be better if we had a regional police force with local community detachments.

[VicHockeyFan]

I like the surveilance aspect of this. If you figure one guy is responsible for four property crimes per week, then its worth watching him for a while til he makes a move.

[m0nkyman]

At which point the judge will kick him back onto the street in about 4.5 nanoseconds.... :?

[VicHockeyFan]

At which point the judge will kick him back onto the street in about 4.5 nanoseconds.... :?

If they catch him at it again within days of his release, he is likely not only in trouble for the new alleged crime, but also in breach of his release conditions, thus far more likely to stay locked up until trial. In that case, the offender often pleads guilty and has a 15-minute sentencing hearing right away, and then receives his sentence.

[Holden West]

Victoria police struggle to handle 100 calls in 12 hours

Saanich's more than 10 officers on duty Saturday night fielded 40 calls in roughly the same time Victoria's up to 30 officers handled almost 100. Oak Bay's three officers handled 18 calls in 24 hours from Saturday to Sunday.

Local police and RCMP have a standing agreement to assist one another in an emergency. Saanich Mayor Frank Leonard said his force deals with its own weekend challenges, including eight high schools and 17,000 students at the University of Victoria. But when it can, Saanich will continue to help Victoria police, said Leonard.

"The [Saanich police] chief [Derek Egan] has made me aware that Victoria's requests have been more frequent lately," Leonard said yesterday.

"But we try to look past that and not to come to any judgment. But it does seem to be more frequently that they have needed us for backup. We would not want to be taken for granted. They should be addressing their own resource needs within their own house."

Jeez, excuse us.

[Rorschach]

There really has to be some consequences for the unruly drunks. Their fights and interaction with the police has become ritual entertainment for the drunks since they know the crown isn't going to prosecute them.

The VPD wouldn't be chasing so many calls if the people fighting got a little jail time and a big fine.

Unfortunately, the local bars are going to have to prevent this stuff instead of having the police bail them out. It's the same group of unruly punks every week. They need cameras like they have at the soccer games in the UK to spot and arrest hooligans before they get into the stadium.

The police should publish a "rouges gallery" of unruly drunks they arrest so that the bars all know who the problem children are -- but, since they can't release names unless someone is charged, they fact they decide not to charge them prevents this too.

In short there are other solutions than to expand the bootprint of the police. Maybe all those "leaders" (nearly half the force) need to get out from behind the desks and get back on patrol helping where their "talent" will actually do some good. I'd at least stagger the hours of all the "leaders" so that they are not all clustered on day shift working bankers hours. Bureaucrats can push their papers around at night and leave the station to help when the **** hit the fan.

[Mike K.]

Before we put tax-paying drunks into jail cells for unruly behaviour on the weekends, could we please take care of repeat car thieves, home invaders, and petty criminals first? Please and thanks.

I'm going to stand on a limb here and suggest that the first time fratboy steps out of line and gets handcuffed is the last time fratboy steps out of line and gets handcuffed. People do stupid things when they're drunk and but the majority of them fess up to their acts and keep their head on for next time. For the repeat offenders drinking and causing trouble, I'm going to step on another limb and suggest that they're far outnumbered by the amount of active and repeat criminals around this city. Furthermore, if police are indeed concerned about repeat trouble makers leaving the bars, they can and do arrest them (that I know of first hand, not as the one getting arrested but having known the individuals who were).

[G-Man]

Forced amalgation is required

[Ms. B. Havin]

Saanich's more than 10 officers on duty Saturday night fielded 40 calls in roughly the same time Victoria's up to 30 officers handled almost 100. Oak Bay's three officers handled 18 calls in 24 hours from Saturday to Sunday.

Saanich = 4 calls per officer in specific 12 hour period
Victoria = 3.3 calls per officer in specific 12 hour period
Oak Bay = unknown, because the 3 officers handling 18 calls (which = 6 calls per officer) did so over 24 hours

I wonder if anyone else is looking at this and, based purely on the numbers, is scratching their head, wondering what the fuss is about.

It seems to me that Victoria has a case to make about the quality of the calls it gets.

Re. Mike & Rorschach about the drunks/ "fratboys": my gut reaction is to side with Rorschach on this, because I detest tribal/mob behaviour -- if those asshats are spilling out of bars to "mob" anyone, they're basically Nazis, in my book. They lack individuality and just do what everyone else does because they're too stupid to think for themselves. My preferred action would be to throw the book at them, where it really hurts. But then Mike says that it's enough for fratboys if they get slapped on the wrists lightly. Once caught, they smarten up and don't ever do it again. And that the repeat offenders are known to police and are few in number.

Since I don't do bars at that hour, I don't know if Mike is right. But if "thousands" (as per that article) of "drunk" patrons spill out of bars at the same time every weekend night, and if that's what's making life for Victoria police so qualitatively difficult, then it sounds like we're past the "ounce of prevention" part of the problem and well into looking for "pounds of cure."

If the drunks from the bars are capping off their evening with (as Rorschach put it) the "ritual entertainment" of street fighting (including fighting with the police, swarming them, etc.), then it seems that the police have lost all credibility. They're a joke. That's how the punks are looking at it.

So what are the police going to do about that? More cops isn't necessarily the answer -- it's as easy to disrespect 2 as 20 cops. More cops would just mean that you have a better chance in beating the punks, but that doesn't mean you're going to get any respect.

[aastra]

At 1 a.m. Sunday police mobilized their tactical squad and asked for Saanich's help when a man in an apartment near Quadra Street and Queens Avenue phoned 911 with a gun threat. Officers had to evacuate the neighbourhood. The 32-year-old man, distraught over a marriage problem, took his own life behind the building. Inside his apartment, police found more than 50 handguns and rifles.

Good gravy.

[Nparker]

Forced amalgation is required

I posted a reply to the Times-Colonist article saying this very same thing.

[Rorschach]

The drunks may get arrested, but they are released without charges when sober. I'm proposing they get charged with the offense they were arrested for rather than pass after pass after pass. It's all a game to them. A fight with the police is part of the "fun."

If police resources were not tied up dealing with drunks, they might be able to make some progress on all the vehicle thefts and property crime.

If regular people would simply stop buying the Blaupunkt stereos for $20 when they know full well they are worth $500, perhaps there would be little motive to steal. No demand, no supply.

I'm sure a chop shop sting or a pawn shop sting would yield a lot of regular people involved in enabling the thefts.

If the complaint is depleting resources quickly, the best solution is making sure there are consequences. When there are, the problem goes away.

[Holden West]

^Agreed.

[Mike K.]

Freeing the police from two nights a week of tending to unruly drunks won't even dent the resources an entire week's worth of petty crime requires.

The drunks on Friday and Saturday nights are not representative of the social ills of this community.

[G-Man]

I Agree with Mike the drunks are minor compared to other social ills in this town.

[Caramia]

I am with Ms B on this one, there should be serious consequences for crimes committed regardless of the substance that the person has consumed. Being drunk shouldn't be an excuse for assault. People need to be responsible for their behaviour.

As for Saanich suggesting that Victoria Police should take better care of their backyard, what if the bill for the police time is sent to the residential district of the offender. That would surely help even the resource allocation issue.

That, or forced amalgamation...

[Galvanized]

^I agree.

Saanich Mayor Frank Leonard said his force deals with its own weekend challenges, including eight high schools and 17,000 students at the University of Victoria. But when it can, Saanich will continue to help Victoria police, said Leonard.

"The [Saanich police] chief [Derek Egan] has made me aware that Victoria's requests have been more frequent lately," Leonard said yesterday.

"But we try to look past that and not to come to any judgment. But it does seem to be more frequently that they have needed us for backup. We would not want to be taken for granted. They should be addressing their own resource needs within their own house."

With comments like that amalgamation has to be forced.

[Mike K.]

Of course, the individuals who cause trouble while drunk should be arrested if they engage in criminal activity, but the Friday/Saturday night drunks are not as big a problem in this city as the media and the police complaints lead us to believe.

What is causing problems is a lack of police. That's it. There aren't enough cops to manage an average weekend party scene while covering the rest of the city.

Furthermore the reason we have such a surge of party goers on the weekends has to do with Victoria's lack of alternative entertainment. People are starved for something to do so they converge onto downtown and partake in the only form of night time entertainment offered. Perhaps the real solution to this "problem" is alternative and/or a greater selection of entertainment opportunities for the youth of this community?