9623 replies to this topic

[Coreyburger]

i'm glad you asked.

 

say for example toilet paper was free paid for by your taxes.

 

would toilet paper use go up or down?

 

of course it would go up.

 

and it's not like some people are not using toiler paper now so that explains the increase.  

 

the increase is because it's "free".  and that encourages waste.

 

same thing with buses.  kids that were perfectly fine with walking 4 blocks will now take the bus.  buses will have to be added.  more pollution.

 

 

 

i've yet to hear of even a single community or advocacy group that asked for free or cheap buses.  it's a political invention.

 

Those are a lot of assumptions. Yes, there will be people who replace a walking/biking trip with a transit trip (UVic saw some of that with the UPass). But the benefits are huge.

 

As for advocacy groups, I can't speak for any transit groups, but I can speak about bike related matters. If the politician is already pushing for something you support, there isn't much point is stirring up your supporters in support as well, as that just exhausts them.

[Victoria Watcher]

the assumptions are based on sound economic principles. taught even in liberal schools.

no politician talked about free buses until last fall.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 July 2019 - 12:59 PM.

[Coreyburger]

the assumptions are based on sound economic principles. taught even in liberal schools.

 

Making something free does increase use. However, more bus use and less car use is good for society economically, so your argument falls flat

[Victoria Watcher]

Making something free does increase use. t

CORRECT. clearly you have studied basic economics.

however it’s unclear if free bus use will even nominally decrease car use.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 July 2019 - 01:07 PM.

[Mike K.]

Making something free does increase use. However, more bus use and less car use is good for society economically, so your argument falls flat

8 year olds don’t drive.

[Cats4Hire]

Technically and 8 year old on the bus could mean an 8 year not in the back of their parent's car 

[Coreyburger]

8 year olds don’t drive.

 

8 year olds spend a lot of time in the back seats of parent's cars

[Victoria Watcher]

if you are an 8-year-old alone on a bus social services agents will be visiting you parent(s).

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 July 2019 - 02:24 PM.

[Cats4Hire]

if you are an 8-year-old alone on a bus social services agents will be visiting you parent(s).

I took the bus to Commonwealth Pool and Mayfair when I was 8 with my friend all the time. I admit I'm not a good judge of age but I see kids that look fairly young getting on the bus either alone or with friends. 

[Cats4Hire]

actually thinking about it we were probably 10 when we starting bussing but I can't comment on those kids I do see (that even for $2.50/$5 are usually only on for a couple stops anyway) 

[Brantastic]

Free is NOT free. Someone, somewhere is subsidizing the cost. I wish this were made more clear to the general public.

You've repeated this point ad nauseam, and we've discussed it over and over again. It is free at the point of service. I'm pretty sure the general public understands that "free transit" means it would be subsidized through some other means, such as property taxes or parking fees, and even people with a limited understanding of public finance understand that. 

 

[Nparker]

...even people with a limited understanding of public finance understand that. 

You vastly over-estimate the fiscal intelligence of the average voter, especially those in the CoV.

As for my ad nauseum repetition of the "free isn't free" argument, I will continue to espouse it here and elsewhere until such time as the concept has an effect on those who are taxing me into the poor house by supplying everything to everyone for "free".

[lanforod]

I don’t have a big concern with making transit free for kids. I wouldn’t want it free for everyone though.
We have plenty of ‘free’ services for segments of the population or even for the entire population. The benefit to society in general outweighs the usually minimal cost to taxpayers.

[Nparker]

I don’t have a big concern with making transit free for kids...

I'd reason it's a pretty small percentage of the local population where families are unable to come up with bus fare when their children need to use public transportation. It's just another case of our local SJW politicos finding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and one more opportunity for them to dip into my wallet to pay for it.

[Victoria Watcher]

I agree. there was no problem.

[Victoria Watcher]

I agree. there was no problem.

[GaryOak]

The thing is if you give people a bus pass they have already paid for, they are more likely to take the bus then they otherwise would have been

[Cats4Hire]

I'd reason it's a pretty small percentage of the local population where families are unable to come up with bus fare when their children need to use public transportation. It's just another case of our local SJW politicos finding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and one more opportunity for them to dip into my wallet to pay for it.

My family rarely caries cash. I think they said something about lokking into allowing debit and credit payments but currently for families like us getting $5 in cash (or $10 if there's siblings, maybe even $15) was a struggle. My mom ended up buying bus tickets and we always had a sheet of those on the fridge but a lot of people don't seem to realize those exist.

[DustMagnet]

My family rarely caries cash. I think they said something about lokking into allowing debit and credit payments but currently for families like us getting $5 in cash (or $10 if there's siblings, maybe even $15) was a struggle. My mom ended up buying bus tickets and we always had a sheet of those on the fridge but a lot of people don't seem to realize those exist.

 

I just bought another sheet yesterday!   

Nparker cheaps out and won't buy my kid bus passes for July and August...    September through June though... 

[Cats4Hire]

I just bought another sheet yesterday!

Nparker cheaps out and won't buy my kid bus passes for July and August... September through June though...

They really should advertise these more. Unless you actually see someone using the tickets I'm not sure how you would find out they exist. They're always hidden away in some drawer and i've never seen BC Transit mention them on their social media (they give reminders on monthly passes at the end of the month) and on the website it's only under "fares" so if you know how much the bus costs you'd probably never go there.