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Black and White
Uses: condo, commercial
Address: 1033 Cook Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 6
Condo units: 75 (1BR, 2BR, penthouse, 1BR + den, 2BR + den, junior 1BR)
Sales status: sold out / resales only
Black and White is a six-storey mixed-used development with five residential levels above a ground floor comme... (view full profile)
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[Fairfield] Black and White | Condos; commercial | 6-storeys | Built - completed in 2019


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#941 Mike K.

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 05:00 AM

They have several such projects, including one in Saanich on Quadra at Tolmie adjacent to existing apartments and single family homes. Another is coming to 210 Gorge. It all comes down to tenant make-up, and these projects tends to house individuals who are trying to stay away from the low barrier facilities.

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#942 Promontory Kingpin

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 05:03 AM

maybe it will be done right for once.  not too far away on johnson a cool aid run housing project flies pretty nicely under the radar.


We can only hope - but the track record ain’t great. Who really knows what will happen with that inflated 8M purchase of the speedy glass lot on Pandora. The CoV cries that they are now 17M ok debt and blames it on Covid?!?

Can we get someone to tally up the amounts of the purchases of Paul’s Motor Inn, Comfort Inn and Suites, the Pandora lot (along with the cost to build whatever they are building), and the wasted cost to study the failed Crystal Pool that will not move forward.

Add up those costs and see how close you get to the 17M deficit
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#943 Mike K.

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 05:28 AM

Paul’s and Comfort are provincial expenditures. They are quite likely in the $35-$40M range.

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#944 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 05:31 AM

Paul’s and Comfort are provincial expenditures. They are quite likely in the $35-$40M range.

 

 

The province of B.C. has bought the 75-room Paul's Motor Inn on Douglas Street for about $15 million

 

B.C. has also purchased a couple of Vancouver hotels to provide housing for tenters. As well, it bought the 65-unit Comfort Inn and Suites on Blanshard Street for $18.5 million

 

 

 

 

the city also take a serious property tax hit annually because of these sales.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 August 2020 - 05:32 AM.


#945 Mike K.

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 05:34 AM

They do? Why would they take a tax hit?

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#946 Barrrister

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 06:56 AM

The city takes a hit because they dont get to collect taxes on provincially owned property. It will be a substantial loss every year.



#947 Mike K.

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 07:07 AM

That’s not quite right. These rental complexes don’t pay property tax, but they pay grants to the municipality equal to the property tax.

The big loser here will be Tourism Victoria, as those properties will no longer generate hotel tax revenues.
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#948 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 07:19 AM

but i think the grant will be based on lower property value or type or both.  residential compared to commercial (hotel).



#949 Mike K.

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 07:38 AM

The property value skyrocketed when the province stepped in, as even they admitted they paid a value consistent with redevelopment efforts.

Then once redeveloped they’ll turn those properties into far higher densities than what is there now, a la Crosstown on the site of the Tally-Ho. Trust me, no taxation revenues go missing, otherwise there would be a revolt.

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#950 aastra

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 08:16 AM

 

That's because it's taboo to allow anything but a single family home on the vast majority of the urban land in North America. If we diversified the housing types in established neighbourhoods there would be less pressure to locate all of the density in one spot.

 

The same authorities that fight urban density for market developments will push urban density for social services, support housing, tent cities, etc. Urban density is thus a bad thing when people want it or when it would reap benefits, but urban density is a good thing when people don't want it or when it would be counterproductive (or irrelevant, as the case may be).

 

I'm always thinking of the distressed individual from the 'burbs or some small town or up north or wherever. We encourage (force?) him to adopt an extremely urban lifestyle when he's in trouble. Why do we do that? We're adding additional challenges and complications to his life, seemingly for the heck of it.

 

But if that same individual ever gets back on his feet, he'll be facing yet more challenges and complications if he wishes to continue with the extremely urban lifestyle that we've now inculcated in him. Places to live are few and expensive, and the authorities do absolutely everything they can to aggravate the market housing situation generally.

 

Let's just say the philosophical contradictions are off the charts. The message is "bright lights, big city" when you're in distress, but "get outta town" when you're not in distress.

 

The specific example below re: teens makes the point very clearly:

 

 

Times-Colonist
March 26, 2001

West Coast cities attract street kids from far and wide: Study finds one-third of homeless in Victoria came from outside B.C.

The vast majority of kids living on Vancouver streets are from outside British Columbia, often having moved to escape family situations where they felt abused, neglected or misunderstood, suggests a report by the McCreary Centre Society.

Some 61 per cent of street kids in Vancouver and 33 per cent of those in Victoria who completed a survey last year were from other provinces, says the report titled No Place to Call Home, which is to be released today.

There is also a steady stream of adolescents from suburban and non-urban centres in B.C., who begin street life in their home communities on a part-time basis but later migrate to the larger cities where they become more entrenched, more at risk and harder to reach. Only 24 per cent of those surveyed said they were originally from Vancouver.

The difference between the urban and non-urban communities is significant to those who are trying to help these vulnerable young people, says Dr. Roger Tonkin, the centre's executive director and a leading B.C. authority on adolescent behaviour.

"The kids in smaller communities are still connected to school, family and agencies," he said in an interview.

 



#951 Casual Kev

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 02:36 PM

There are a lot of folks who were first time home buyers at B&W and other surrounding buildings. Having 50k taken off the value of your home - something that takes many years of savings and discipline to achieve ain’t no joke. When the city or province initiates these pet projects they are very seldom executed well and often create havoc in the surrounding neighbourhood that leads to violence, robbery, and public drug use.

The neighbourhood plays the role of the victim in these unfortunate situations and has to assume the social costs that are associated with these projects which all too often result in a decreased quality of life for residents and small businesses within the area.

 

I can't tell if you're trying to be a parody or not.

 

Most new downtown condos are a stone's throw away from social housing, if not on the same block. That is already figured in the price tag, and people still pay very well for residential square footage. If you buy in the area with the expectation no new social housing will come up your real estate agent pulled a fast one on you. 


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#952 Nparker

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 02:47 PM

I guess the questions remains: why does so much social housing get concentrated in such a small area, especially when property in and around the downtown core is some of the most expensive in the region?



#953 IPH

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 05:05 PM

I guess the questions remains: why does so much social housing get concentrated in such a small area, especially when property in and around the downtown core is some of the most expensive in the region?

Exactly, why is it always here and not on less expensive land?  Not only are we paying way too much for the land through our taxes, because of where it is located, but then we get to pay more through the devaluation of our property because of how close it is to this type of facility. 

 

Why isn't this type of development proposed in Fernwood where the Mayor lives and as Adam Stirling pointed out yesterday, camping is not even allowed in the park near her house.  Or how about in Esquimalt where Loveday and Dubow live, or out in Saanich next to Alto or CTJ's homes.   They get to vote to support this type of crap in our neighbourhood and then go back to their homes where it doesn't impact them one bit.  Its time for this council to go and be replaced by people that actually live in Victoria and pay taxes in Victoria so their actions impact them not just those of us that pay for it. 

 

I thought the province was done playing puppet to Helps and buying up expensive land to provide free housing for the rest of Canada.  Maybe the province should build one of these next to Horgan's house.  Of course that will never happen!


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#954 Casual Kev

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 06:49 PM

Exactly, why is it always here and not on less expensive land?  Not only are we paying way too much for the land through our taxes, because of where it is located, but then we get to pay more through the devaluation of our property because of how close it is to this type of facility. 

 

Why isn't this type of development proposed in Fernwood where the Mayor lives and as Adam Stirling pointed out yesterday, camping is not even allowed in the park near her house.  Or how about in Esquimalt where Loveday and Dubow live, or out in Saanich next to Alto or CTJ's homes.   They get to vote to support this type of crap in our neighbourhood and then go back to their homes where it doesn't impact them one bit.  Its time for this council to go and be replaced by people that actually live in Victoria and pay taxes in Victoria so their actions impact them not just those of us that pay for it. 

 

I thought the province was done playing puppet to Helps and buying up expensive land to provide free housing for the rest of Canada.  Maybe the province should build one of these next to Horgan's house.  Of course that will never happen!

 

The answer is a lot less nefarious - depending on your perspective, anyhow. Social housing gets built downtown for the same reason as why most condo projects are - it's the path of least resistance. If you can't build a townhouse project in Gonzales without major community resistance, imagine a couple dozen units of supportive housing. The CoV municipality isn't exactly big either. The Rock Bay area is the only other location you could build such type of housing without much fuss, owing to the industrial character of the area - but there's only so much industrial land that can be sacrificed, too. Think of the premium paid for downtown land as an indirect subsidy to residential neighborhoods. 

 

And of course, the CoV is the destination of all the bucks being passed so good luck convincing other municipalities in the CRD or in BC in general to build social housing on a scale commensurate to the problem. Homelessness is in practice an issue that transcends all three jurisdictions, but again - you're not going to convince those passing the buck to even partially own up.



#955 Mike K.

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 06:54 PM

It gets built there for the same reasons tent cities don’t setup in the forests of Langford.

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#956 IPH

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 08:12 PM

Tent Cities get set up by the homeless and activists where they are most visible for obvious reasons.  But supportive housing is not set up by the homeless or activists.  The location is chosen by the government and government agency's that should be choosing the location that meets all of society's needs, keeping in mind who is ultimately paying the bills.

 

That's not the homeless, drug addicted or mentally impaired future residents of the facility, but rather the taxpaying public.  And I would argue that based on population density the largest portion of that tax paying public live in the downtown core and on its fringes, not in the heart of Gonzales, north or south Jubilee, or Rock Bay or ....etc.

 

The problem is that a large majority of the denser core and core fringe area residents are renters not owners and are not as financially invested in the homes they live in.  If their neighbourhood changes they can simply move and have not lost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars by doing so but their landlords will.  In the end landlords will choose not to invest in the downtown area anymore and the flight to the burbs will surge again, both for homeowners, landlord investors, and renters.   Have a look at all the housing starts on the West Shore in the last 8 months (single and multi family) and the slow down in the core.  The stats paint a pretty clear picture. 


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#957 Glen

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Posted 31 August 2020 - 05:07 PM

Will the acquisitions of hotel properties attract the much larger group of homeless from Vancouver to Victoria?  How long until other cities communicate Victoria's supportive housing policies?  Has city council gone down a very slippery path that tax payers will see no end to tax hikes? 



#958 Jackerbie

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Posted 31 August 2020 - 05:22 PM

Will the acquisitions of hotel properties attract the much larger group of homeless from Vancouver to Victoria? How long until other cities communicate Victoria's supportive housing policies? Has city council gone down a very slippery path that tax payers will see no end to tax hikes?


Probably not, as BC Housing has also been picking up hotels and development sites in Vancouver. The province bought three Vancouver hotels in June.

#959 Mike K.

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Posted 09 November 2020 - 08:39 AM

A chain of nail and beauty salons known as The Ten Spot is opening at location at the base of the building. 2,165 square feet remain to be leased.


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