5833 replies to this topic

[marks_28]

It's not a handout, though. It's just described in a way that makes it look like a handout.

 

Ok, maybe I am misunderstanding. When I get my property tax notice, I can take one minute to fill out an application for the grant, and all of a sudden the Province is paying $500 of my property tax bill. That isn't a handout?

[phx]

Ok, maybe I am misunderstanding. When I get my property tax notice, I can take one minute to fill out an application for the grant, and all of a sudden the Province is paying $500 of my property tax bill. That isn't a handout?

 

No, it’s not.  Where do you think the province got that money from?  That’s right, from homeowners via the PTT.

[Mike K.]

No, because the homeowner has already paid many, many thousands in PTT.

 

Edit, phx beat me to it.

Edited by Mike K., 10 January 2022 - 07:12 PM.

[dasmo]

Ok, maybe I am misunderstanding. When I get my property tax notice, I can take one minute to fill out an application for the grant, and all of a sudden the Province is paying $500 of my property tax bill. That isn't a handout?

A handout is when you get money for nothing. Government taking your money and telling you they could have taken more is not a handout, It’s marketing. So when they take thousands of your dollars you feel better about it.

[marks_28]

Right. Is it only funded from PTT, or general revenue? Also, are any of you aware of how much the PTT brings in annually?

[Mike K.]

$2.5 billion per year.

So who’s subsidizing who now, right? You can see how quickly the talking points diminish when advocates say homeowners should pay out an extra billion per year.

Sure, fair is fair. But kill the PTT first.

[rjag]

A handout is when you get money for nothing. Government taking your money and telling you they could have taken more is not a handout, It’s marketing. So when they take thousands of your dollars you feel better about it.

 

This....

[spanky123]

No, because the homeowner has already paid many, many thousands in PTT.

 

Edit, phx beat me to it.

 

Just the first salvo in the attack on homeowners. Paint them as the enemy who are taking money away from the middle class. 

[Matt R.]

If I were to move to a new city and rent a home for University, I would need to come up with $20k. That is a huge stretch for most students. And then another when I move back home. And then another when I move into another place.

If I were moving now, I would sell my property and potentially buy a new one. Should that be the case, I could pay for the PTT from the proceeds of my property sale.

For first time buyers, there are exemptions to the PTT to help them get in the market.

Doesn’t the PTT get added into the price, ever increasing it? Do people eat that cost?

[Nparker]

Just the first salvo in the attack on homeowners. Paint them as the enemy who are taking money away from the middle class. 

It's the second if you consider Lisa Helps "SFH owners are racists" remark.

[marks_28]

$2.5 billion per year.

So who’s subsidizing who now, right? You can see how quickly the talking points diminish when advocates say homeowners should pay out an extra billion per year.

Sure, fair is fair. But kill the PTT first.

Checked out the budget, and they have $2.0 billion budgeted for this year from PTT. And with regards to subsidizing, even if you got rid of the PTT, couldn’t you say technically homeowners subsidized the HoG via their income taxes (70% of people own, paying probably more than 70% of $11.2 billion)?

But when homeowners have at least 5x the net worth of renters, it seems like we need to even the playing field a bit. And still don’t understand why Joe High Income Earner with no mortgage needs help paying their taxes, just because they paid the PTT once or twice. Just think the $1 billion could be better spent on affordable housing, or raise the shelter subsidy for persons with a disability from the decade plus old rate of $375/month. They could probably use the help more than a lot of homeowners.

But this debate seems to be going in circles again, so we might as well call it a day.

[Mike K.]

Yeah, the government is financially feeling the decrease in sales due to low inventory rates. It's impacting PTT revenues.

 

Alberta doesn't even have a PTT.

[rjag]

Net worth isn’t static. When I was 20 I was a renter. My net worth was my car and some furniture….you can’t compare that to when I was 40 and say the playing field needs evened out. 
 

what’s the net worth of a retired civil servant with an indexed pension compared to a person who only collects CPP? 
 

Even though that retired person on CPP paid taxes all their life to contribute to the civil servants pension. I think that needs evened out!

[Mike K.]

Right, the comparison is not a valid one. It’s more or less an ageist statement.

[lanforod]

I’d be okay with dropping the HOG in exchange for halving the PTT. As a start.

[dasmo]

The HOG is just marketing. It’s essentially an extra tax on investment property repositioned as a discount on your primary residence. This also allows for less difficulties collecting the extra tax since it’s the default and one needs to opt out of the extra tax.

[Banksy]

marks_28 I want to assume by now you have gone back to your other social groups and introduced them to the concept of the PTT and how much money homeowners pay the government to own a home and then every time they move.

 

What have you heard back?

[spanky123]

RBC CEO calling for rapid increase in interest rates to quell inflation. Markets now pricing in 5 rate increases this year starting in two weeks. https://www.bnnbloom...ation-1.1706209

 

This will likely be the best thing for housing prices. Once we are back to 5% mortgages then the market will quell substantially. 

[Mike K.]

Yes and no. Remember, we are qualifying for mortgages above 5% right now. Anyone who buys today is already cleared for landing at 5%, and for a while yet variable rates will still settle much lower than locked rates.

[marks_28]

marks_28 I want to assume by now you have gone back to your other social groups and introduced them to the concept of the PTT and how much money homeowners pay the government to own a home and then every time they move.

What have you heard back?

Lol. Can’t say PTT has entered any of today’s conversations. I would assume the majority of my social group is aware of the tax though.