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Victoria's housing market, home prices and values


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#3981 Mike K.

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 12:32 PM

Lol, I have to...:

 

okboomer 2.jpg


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#3982 spanky123

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 12:47 PM

The PTT on a $3.5 million house is significantly higher percentage wise than PTT on a $1.3 million house.

 

PTT is 1% for first $200k, 2% for $200k-$2 million, 3% $2 million-$3 million, and an additional 2% above $3 million, making it 5%. Ouch.

 

Then there is an additional PTT "if you’re a foreign national, foreign corporation or taxable trustee."

 

Sounds like the NDP have a big incentive to keep housing prices up and continuing to increase!



#3983 Moderation

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 12:56 PM

Checked out the budget, and they have $2.0 billion budgeted for this year from PTT. And with regards to subsidizing, even if you got rid of the PTT, couldn’t you say technically homeowners subsidized the HoG via their income taxes (70% of people own, paying probably more than 70% of $11.2 billion)?

But when homeowners have at least 5x the net worth of renters, it seems like we need to even the playing field a bit. And still don’t understand why Joe High Income Earner with no mortgage needs help paying their taxes, just because they paid the PTT once or twice. Just think the $1 billion could be better spent on affordable housing, or raise the shelter subsidy for persons with a disability from the decade plus old rate of $375/month. They could probably use the help more than a lot of homeowners.

But this debate seems to be going in circles again, so we might as well call it a day.

 

Someone makes a suggestion about a potential revision to the HOG and how much discussion is focused on that topic? It seems like every one jumps on the person and brings up other issues that they feel are unfair as counter points rather than addressing the pro and cons of the initial question

How to identify those who may not really need the HOG is a major challenge. A simple way could be to remove the grant from everyone but that has political implications. 


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#3984 lanforod

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 12:56 PM

^^ sounds like, but in reality shooting themselves in the foot by suppressing the market; there isn't enough supply.


Edited by lanforod, 12 January 2022 - 12:57 PM.


#3985 Mike K.

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 01:22 PM

Someone makes a suggestion about a potential revision to the HOG and how much discussion is focused on that topic? It seems like every one jumps on the person and brings up other issues that they feel are unfair as counter points rather than addressing the pro and cons of the initial question
.
How to identify those who may not really need the HOG is a major challenge. A simple way could be to remove the grant from everyone but that has political implications.

If influencers could just stop pretending everything exists in isolation we wouldn’t have to waste time on these debates.

Kill the PTT, then we can negotiate. Until then the anti-HOG idea is just another tax grab hiding behind what it hopes is PTT ignorance.
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#3986 rjag

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 01:28 PM

Marks suggests that cancelling the HOG gives Govt an extra $1billion. I would counter and say taking $1billion out of the economy has a $ multiplier effect far far greater.

 

Taking a $billion out of the economy likely has a multiplier 2-3X or more

 

Again I reiterate, this isnt a Grant even though thats how its worded and was the original intent. Its so entrenched now that its the baseline and any non personal property has a commercial amount tacked on by about $500.

 

How about we get rid of the HOG by reducing the commercial $500 add-on? Why is it always more and more taxes?


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#3987 marks_28

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 01:51 PM

Marks suggests that cancelling the HOG gives Govt an extra $1billion. I would counter and say taking $1billion out of the economy has a $ multiplier effect far far greater.

 

I didn't suggest taking it out and calling it a day. I've suggested multiple uses for the funds.



#3988 rjag

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 02:25 PM

I didn't suggest taking it out and calling it a day. I've suggested multiple uses for the funds.

 

And what you suggested is valid and admirable. I agree that disabled allowances are criminal and ridiculously low. The money to change that is already there, as evidenced by how they can change the MSP premiums or ICBC premiums etc. This $500 is a distraction and is the politics of division. 

 

However I also ask you to consider the impacts are more than the amount considered. 

 

I would suggest people are pushing back for a variety of reasons, one of which is that Govt is already taking more than enough out of our pockets and they need to show that the money already extracted is being used properly and not wasted. The way Govt works is that the $billion collected would require at least $200-300 million in new bureaucracy to manage and then all the additional layers of red tape and time, we'd be lucky to see 1/2 of that reach the intended recipients. 


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#3989 On the Level

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 03:54 PM

I wonder if many renters simply don't understand what the Home Owner Grant is and believe homeowners get a grant.  It is simply used to charge more tax on properties where the owner doesn't live there.  In theory, these are investment properties and as such, those individuals can afford to pay more in tax.  

 

If we wanted to be fair, we would do away with property taxes and have a head tax.  Those earning more would pay more.  It would be transparent instead of being hidden in rents.


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#3990 Barrrister

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 03:57 PM

Can the city charge a separate tax for services to renters? ( I know that they dont but can they legally charge a police services tax for all residents thereby reducing property taxes?



#3991 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 04:02 PM

Probably not. They are always complaining about how they have so few ways to tax people.
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#3992 On the Level

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 04:06 PM

Can the city charge a separate tax for services to renters? ( I know that they dont but can they legally charge a police services tax for all residents thereby reducing property taxes?

 

I don't know.  I think the whole push right now is in the opposite direction for a property levy by putting a lien on your home, then increasing it each year by a percentage of your home value.  Private property would slowly become the cities to fund social justice experiments in other countries. 


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#3993 marks_28

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 04:15 PM

I wonder if many renters simply don't understand what the Home Owner Grant is and believe homeowners get a grant. 

 

That is very possible. And to be honest, I didn't know anything about it until I bought my property and saw it on my first property tax notice. However, this was a few years ago, and I would like to think I would have learned about it by now, even if I still rented.



#3994 rjag

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 04:16 PM

How long before we hear about an empty bedroom tax? or undeveloped basement tax?


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#3995 tommy

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 10:08 PM

HOW I SAVED ENOUGH TO BUY A HOUSE WITH MY PARENTS’ MONEY

 

 

https://www.mcsweene...y-parents-money


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#3996 dasmo

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Posted 13 January 2022 - 10:54 AM

One must admit the terrain is much different now. I think about my Dad buying a house in Alberta in the 70's for one years wages. They would buy cars with cash. I then think of myself buying my first house with 4 years wages. The house I am in now is worth 16 times one years wages. That is undeniably an issue. One reason I converted my life savings into this house was because I wanted to create a generational gift for my family while the opportunity was still there. I would not be able to make this move today. That is a simple fact. I now accept that my kids will not have the same path as their generations before them. It might be necessary for more families to think about family living long term. 



#3997 tommy

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Posted 13 January 2022 - 11:06 AM

HOW I SAVED ENOUGH TO BUY A HOUSE WITH MY PARENTS’ MONEY

 

 

https://www.mcsweene...y-parents-money

 

if these hipster/wokester/socialists really wanted to buy a house at an affordable price they would have gotten themselves born twenty or thirty years earlier ;-)



#3998 On the Level

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Posted 13 January 2022 - 11:13 AM

One must admit the terrain is much different now. 

 

I agree and there is no easy solution.  With our current inflation, it should be interesting to see who goes under when interest rates rise and people start to panic.  I am old enough to have gone through a couple of downturns but many have not.  They have no idea what a few percentage points will do to their mortgage payments.  That in itself could cause a correction.



#3999 spanky123

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Posted 13 January 2022 - 11:29 AM

One must admit the terrain is much different now. I think about my Dad buying a house in Alberta in the 70's for one years wages. 

 

I don't know how much your dad was making to afford a house with one year's wages but here is one outside of Calgary for $240K which seems quite reasonable. Problem is that people want $240K on the inner harbour with a ocean view.

 

For sale: 304 Madison Drive, Irricana, Alberta T0M1B0 - A1168719 | REALTOR.ca


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#4000 spanky123

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Posted 13 January 2022 - 11:31 AM

How long before we hear about an empty bedroom tax? or undeveloped basement tax?

 

Well when more than 50% of people in Victoria live by themselves I would think it would be a reasonable ask if we are truly concerned about efficient use of resources.



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