425 replies to this topic

[aastra]

For opening day it does look a bit rough, I don't disagree.

[VicHockeyFan]

 

 

May 22, 2018

OPINION COLUMN

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

 

A brand spanking new Vic High 

will save tens of millions of dollars ! 

 

Why be frugal when you can be extravagant?

 

Victoria School Board trustees will need political courage at the May 28 board meeting to reject outright the expensive recommendations of its planning committee.

 

It must tell them to go back to the drawing board. 
 

After consulting mostly parents of future students, alumni and school district staff, the committee thinks two costly seismic upgrade options are the way to go on Vic High. Either option will cost local and provincial taxpayers tens of millions of dollars more than building a higher capacity, new state-of-the-art facility for students and the community.
 

The committee points to the heritage aspect of Vic High, which is difficult to understand because the Victoria Heritage Foundation has not even moved to fully protect the property and deems it unworthy of its funding. It's an old building of little architectural merit and that's about it.
 

The committee failed to properly weigh the importance of school security, unfortunately a major concern for students and parents following dreadful disturbances and shootings in recent years.
 

Did they consider the lifespan of an upgraded facility versus a modern building? Is there an added environmental impact to running a renovated school? Are escalating construction costs allowed for? What are the incremental operating costs in energy usage and maintenance for the next several generations of taxpayers?
 

The committee failed to completely address the problem of about 200 students in the catchment area now on a waiting list. While some capacity will be added, it will be insufficient for a growing population.
 

The district projects a total shortfall of 688 spaces across the three high schools within 15 years. By then, Vic High is projected to be 580 over current capacity.
 

At election time this fall, taxpayers will thank trustees for setting sentimentality aside, to make a frugal decision to build a modern Vic High School and help delay building an additional school.

If those advocating for a more costly seismic upgrade option were prepared to pay the difference, we wouldn't have a problem. They are not, so we are all paying for a dream we don't share.

 

 

 

That's from Grumpy Taxpayers.

[Nparker]

aastra just had a coronary.

[aastra]

Nope, I could have written that myself because it's straight out of the script. Again, I hate to be the one to try to squeeze some logic and consistency out of people, but how could it possibly make sense to do expensive reno work on every other school in BC except Vic High? The Kitsilano project alone refutes the premise. All of the other projects just blow the notion to bits.

 

But aastra, the taxpayers are stretched! Every penny they save by not doing an expensive reno on Vic High can go toward an expensive reno of some lesser school building in some other BC community!

 

Seriously, that's the logic. It's idiocy.

 

I know I've been a skipping record about this over the years, but "Victoria sucks" is not an actual principle. It's self-deprecation, nothing more. It should never (again) be allowed to guide any decisions or actions, and whenever that card gets played it should be called out, regardless of the guise.

[G-Man]

No one is going to be swayed by that at least.

[amor de cosmos]

Other places on the nationwide list include the Moose Jaw Natatorium — a Depression-area swimming pool — and the Muscowequan Residential School in Lestock, Sask., which First Nations groups want to save as a testament to resilience.

“The Top 10 Endangered Places List is an important tool that helps draw attention to the diversity of Canada’s historic places and the challenges they face,” said National Trust for Canada executive director Natalie Bull.

Vic High is described by the trust as “a beloved institution that has played a profound role in the community.” But the existing building is in need of repairs and upgrading to withstand earthquakes.

The latest development in the Vic High story came last week when Greater Victoria school district trustees indicated that they were leaning toward renovation rather than demolition. At a committee meeting, they asked for further details on the two options that do not involve tearing the school down.

One of those options calls for a $60 million to $70 million project involving seismic upgrades and repairs while the other is a plan to preserve the facade while rebuilding the interior for $100 million to $110 million.

The school could also be demolished and a new one built for $50 million to $60 million. It would house 1,000 students, while the other two plans, calling for preservation, would have room for 850.

Greater Victoria school board vice-chairman Tom Ferris said there is a “lot of public support” for preservation.

“When we did the consultation with the community and with our partner groups in the school district, there was generally that feeling — that this was something they didn’t want to lose.”

Stan Bartlett of the Grumpy Taxpayers of Greater Victoria has highlighted the multi-million dollar savings in building new versus renovating. Building new “is the most rational thing to do,” since that option would be both cheaper and would accommodate more students. To honour Vic High’s heritage, some of the existing building’s features, such as its facades, could be incorporated into a new building, Bartlett said.

http://www.timescolo...aces-1.23312122
https://nationaltrus...ria-high-school

[Nparker]

I am not sure I quite understand what the difference is with the latest options for Vic High vs the $110 million option that is now "off the table." No costs have been made public for the revised concepts.

...The two options being emphasized by trustees include one that upgrades the current facility, does a seismic refit and makes changes to the way the inside of the building is organized. The other option includes seismic work and likely a small addition to the school to add capacity. In both, the exterior of the school would be retained and upgraded, and enhancement of internal heritage aspects could be included. The most expensive option previously was $100 million to $110 million and involved saving the school facade, but it is now off the table....

http://www.timescolo...high-1.23316849

 

[Jackerbie]

^ I imagine that the $100M option is what was done at Kits, i.e. support the facade and completely demo everything else. The refit options sound more like renovating the guts of the building, keeping the floors and load-bearing walls where they are.

[spanky123]

No one is going to be swayed by that at least.

 

How about if they went out to local taxpayers and said the 3 options will cost you an extra $0, $50 or $100 on your property tax bill (or rent)? Anyone want to bet what the overwhelming choice would be?

 

Somehow we have come to accept that Fed and Provincial money is OPM.

[Cassidy]

As I noted back on March 21st in this very thread ... Vic High was never going to be torn down. Anybody who thought it ever could be torn down certainly can't have lived in Victoria very long ... or if they have, despite their years living here have garnered little or no understanding of the character of the city.

 

All that was ever in question with Vic HIgh was what degree of seismic upgrading would be required (and eventually approved), and how much it will cost to fulfill those design requirements.

There may be limited mechanical/financial options in terms of exactly what the process will look like ... but those upgrades will indeed happen as required, as they are on all schools in B.C.

 

Vic High has stood in its spot for 104 years now, and will stand exactly where it now stands for at least another 100 years ... likely far longer, albeit with additional structural bracing and sundry seismic upgrades.

 

Some buildings in Victoria are held sacrosanct, Vic High is one of them.

[Nparker]

...Vic High has stood in its spot for 104 years now, and will stand exactly where it now stands for at least another 100 years ... 

Unless the "Big One" hits before seismic upgrading is complete.

[Mike K.]

Wasn't something like 75% of downtown Victoria's heritage make-up razed between the 50's and 80's? Anyone who's lived in Victoria long enough will know how the Eaton Centre came about, what happened to the Campbell Building and why there were so many surface parking lots all over this town up until the last development boom.

 

[Cassidy]

I'd not disagree with that Mike, but for a building to survive such as Vic High obviously will, a large number of residents have to have an emotional connection to the bricks and mortar that comprise the entire structure.

 

Many of the buildings that disappeared when the Eatons Centre and its ilk were built downtown obviously weren't considered "treasures" in the minds of residents.

 

As a graduate of Vic High, I already knew how 104 years of my fellow graduates would feel about the issue of demolishing the existing school ... and also that many of those fellow graduates are today's movers and shakers in Victoria.

 

Like I said though,  Vic High is held sacrosanct ... and that's something that is bestowed on a building by residents ... never to be taken away by naysayers, bureaucrats, or penny pinchers.

[Cassidy]

Unless the "Big One" hits before seismic upgrading is complete.

True of any old building held as being of some value to the community, but that hasn't seen any seismic upgrading to date.

 

A bit of a race against time, and really just left for local folks to hope that key buildings held dear by Victorians are all seismicly reinforced before the "big one" hits.

[spanky123]

I'd not disagree with that Mike, but for a building to survive such as Vic High obviously will, a large number of residents have to have an emotional connection to the bricks and mortar that comprise the entire structure.

 

Many of the buildings that disappeared when the Eatons Centre and its ilk were built downtown obviously weren't considered "treasures" in the minds of residents.

 

As a graduate of Vic High, I already knew how 104 years of my fellow graduates would feel about the issue of demolishing the existing school ... and also that many of those fellow graduates are today's movers and shakers in Victoria.

 

Like I said though,  Vic High is held sacrosanct ... and that's something that is bestowed on a building by residents ... never to be taken away by naysayers, bureaucrats, or penny pinchers.

 

Are you really attached to the building itself, the façade or the memories? Given a pen and paper could you even draw any of the interior features anymore?

[Cassidy]

 Given a pen and paper could you even draw any of the interior features anymore?

Indeed, I'm 61 and still have detailed dreams of walking down the hallways, forgetting the combination to my locker, and missing classes (which I did plenty of).

 

I could take you on a tour, every floor, the attic, and if the Faery Tech building was still there I could show you every square inch of it, from Boatbuilding Shop, to the IndustrialScience Lab and Automotive Shop ... I lived and breathed Vic High.

Sorry, I'd be a little weak on the newer portions of the building though

 

For those for whom the building is sacrosanct there's no explanation required.

For those to whom it's just another old building, it's probably not a discussion they'll ever fully understand.

 

All that's probably true of a lot of old buildings, those with a long history of assorted occupants.

[spanky123]

Indeed, I'm 61 and still have detailed dreams of walking down the hallways, forgetting the combination to my locker, and missing classes (which I did plenty of).

 

I could take you on a tour, every floor, the attic, and if the Faery Tech building was still there I could show you every square inch of it, from Boatbuilding Shop, to the IndustrialScience Lab and Automotive Shop ... I lived and breathed Vic High.

Sorry, I'd be a little weak on the newer portions of the building though

 

For those for whom the building is sacrosanct there's no explanation required.

For those to whom it's just another old building, it's probably not a discussion they'll ever fully understand.

 

All that's probably true of a lot of old buildings, those with a long history of assorted occupants.

 

Have you been inside in the past 20 years? 

[sdwright.vic]

I was glad when they tore down my high school. Meant that the coming students wouldn't have to go to school in a worn out outdated facility anymore.

[Cassidy]

Have you been inside in the past 20 years? 

Indeed I have ... many, many times.

 

I worked on a large project at Vic High with Lawrie Wallace as its Chair ... many years after I graduated

I've also attended many other functions, from big band concerts to being my Mothers escort at one of her Vic High reunions (she graduated from Vic High too, decades before I did).

 

I get where you're trying to go ... but you're not going to get there.

Edited by Cassidy, 29 May 2018 - 05:36 PM.

[Midnightly]

I was glad when they tore down my high school. Meant that the coming students wouldn't have to go to school in a worn out outdated facility anymore.

 

 

same.. my high school was this crowded low ceiling dark building lots of browns.. heat occasionally didn't work.. i was glad to see it go.. i was only sad that it happened after i had graduated not before..