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[Metchosin/Beecher Bay FN] Spirit Bay | Mixed-use | Approved


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#121 D.L.

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:29 PM

I agree

#122 darlenet8

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:06 AM

It is the reality of a planet full of people having babies that grow up to need housing and the freedoms to locate virtually anywhere.
I personally love the vibrancy of having people around and if there is an issue for me personally, it is a 'typical' form of housing and community that negatively impacts that experience. And yea, a place in the woods has some 'getting away from it all' appeal.
These pretty nice 'shacks in the woods' were inadequately serviced which might be fine if you were the only shack in the woods but when you start to have well over a hundred, none of which have adequate servicing, the land itself starts to rebel.
I was saddened to hear your perspective of 'mundane jobs' and 'day to day grind' that you think so many people are forced into? I recognize that some people live that way but I have a much more optimistic perspective on people's abilities to make suitable choices (particularly in light of being informed) and to live rich lives. I invite you over to the 'sunny side'...

#123 14 West

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:56 PM

People used to make things, go out in the field, interact with real people etc... Now all of that and most jobs are done sitting down in front of a computer screen for 40 hours a week. If things had gone as Popular Science predicted and computer automation had allowed 15 hour work weeks in front of a screen, that would've worked out great, but we know that just isn't the case at all. Yes there are things out there that aren't mundane and depressing but they are the exception not the rule, and are diminishing under constant pressure.

#124 Szeven

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:07 AM

Work to live dont live to work. Its all perspective.

#125 Bob Fugger

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:22 AM

It is the reality of a planet full of people having babies that grow up to need housing and the freedoms to locate virtually anywhere.


Seriously?!? This is your rationalization as to why shacks in the relative middle of nowhere need to be razed? The reality of population growth and immigration? Bollocks!!

It's crap statements like this as to why property marketers/realtors make me sick. We live in one of the least densely populated countries in the world. The "people having babies" of any consequence - ie in Asia/South Asia, where they are having children in excess of what replaces the population - they generally have neither the economic nor political freedom to just up and move to Shady Shores or whatever the devil you're calling this place.

#126 tony mancini

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:09 AM

Peace

I have been going to Cheanuh aka Spirit Bay now. Since the early 80,s. Fishing, Crabbing around there for years. Since 2007. I stopped eating the crab. As they did not look the same, nor was the meat taste the same. I thought it might be all the boats using the marina at first. Then getting to know ppl who live at Spirit Bay area. I was told about some contaminated soil. That the Chief Russ Chipps had dumped on his own ppls land. For a soccer field for the youth. So I did research. Yes it was done. They say it was all cleaned up. Or was it. Now a few years later. I heard of increase cancers, some dieing even before there time. I am glad I stopped eating the crab of that area. Here is a article, from the local newspaper. You judge for yourself. I feel I made the right choice for myself.

http://www.canada.co...bf0b10d&k=63278

Before any one buys into Spirit Bay. I would have test samples done on the land, run offs, and the marine life with in the Bay. On the news on evicted campers. One of guys on interview had cancer. Heard the Chief also has had his battle with cancer. Also a guy from Alberta, Zack, who had a really nice place at the camp ground. Died this year, of also cancer. So enjoy the views, but please remind yourself Until you test those crabs. Do not eat them.

Tx Tony

#127 Sparky

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:23 AM

Welcome to vibrantvictoria tony. That is an interesting piece of information. Thank you for including the link to the news article.

#128 tony mancini

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:49 AM

Thank you for the welcome. When something does not seem as it is. It usually is not. I have had concerns about that area for years. Was and is such a nice area. I really do luv the Native Culture. This is not myself trying to stop any development. It is more about the environment. Driving thru the campground last weekend. Trees are coming down. Our filters to the ocean. Everyone that lived there. Called the one creek in the middle of the grounds. **** creek. Notice now, some of natives live in some of the places not torn down yet. So they did take over ppls places, without refurbishments. A native girl Lucy, lives in a old campers place now, Old Bobs place. They talk about, how they helped hardship ppl from the ground. So they could have for thereselfs. I do know of hardship cases, a couple of them. Other campers helped them to relocate, not the bands help itself. They said ppl who payed a head of time, all got there money back. I did talk to one, who never has so far of last week. The pics posted, one of the fire. Was a place a native had. Was not a campers place. Reading thru this thread. I feel I have had to speak out. As it is a buyers beware. Been a local fishing marina for years, now about to change. To bring in oil rich money ppl to this place. All they will hear is the positives about it. Not any of the negatives. The natives should have built, these cabins. With there own resources, not selling out to a developer. Rent them out to local fishing groups, ppl ect. Clean up the campgrounds. Bring in services, fix the roads. Increase the rental. Do for yourself. I lived with Chief Dan Georges granddaughter. He told me years ago. A bands doesn't not heal nor further there selfs from others developing, as they would, thru education. Guess they will learn thru the spokin words.

Tony

#129 14 West

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 09:30 PM

This is off topic and could very well require it's own thread Bernard, but many might ask....

How would one find out where these locations might be and how do we find them online?


Can we move these comments and start a thread on the topic?

I for one have been curious about this for years, asking around to whoever knows something about anything how to accomplish this.

#130 D.L.

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:29 PM

The discussion about crown land has been moved here - http://www.vibrantvi...rown-land-6542/

#131 tony mancini

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:37 AM

With the lack of education within the band. Besides the natives having the job to clean up all the crap. What jobs in the future does Spirit Bay hold for them? Like minium wage for dishwashers and housekeeping.

With a new town, they are trying to build. That has no transit. I was hoping to hear about something in the lines of education. Mainly for the adults. As the youth can be bused in for public school.

Is there any agreement, between the developers and Farmer. To hire and apprentice the natives in skilled trade? as for the many friendships lost in the so called campground. Ones who have knowin each other for many yrs. Even attending same schools. I hope there is more to gain then just everyone looking at the dollar signs.

I am looking at the picture, all I see, is another white skin. Going to take advantage of the blood. To line there own pockets, from grants, business services charges, operating charges ect. So really how much will this joined development really help out the band, Compared to the developers. Not a 50/50 partnership. Educated vs the non educated. Who will win.

Tony

#132 darlenet8

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 08:48 PM

With the lack of education within the band. Besides the natives having the job to clean up all the crap. What jobs in the future does Spirit Bay hold for them? Like minium wage for dishwashers and housekeeping.

With a new town, they are trying to build. That has no transit. I was hoping to hear about something in the lines of education. Mainly for the adults. As the youth can be bused in for public school.

Is there any agreement, between the developers and Farmer. To hire and apprentice the natives in skilled trade? as for the many friendships lost in the so called campground. Ones who have knowin each other for many yrs. Even attending same schools. I hope there is more to gain then just everyone looking at the dollar signs.

I am looking at the picture, all I see, is another white skin. Going to take advantage of the blood. To line there own pockets, from grants, business services charges, operating charges ect. So really how much will this joined development really help out the band, Compared to the developers. Not a 50/50 partnership. Educated vs the non educated. Who will win.

Tony

Tony - you've made a lot of comments here and I'll do my best to address the ones I can. Firstly, regarding toxic soils and the link you provided. I have no idea but I am checking into it and will post back.
You claim Scianew are living in former trailers? None of them are habitable and all are in the process of coming down - the site looks more beautiful every day. I take exception to your claim that the Scianew helped hardship cases so they could take over the homes for themselves. What nonsense. And did campers help each other? I'm sure they did. But the Band hired housing professionals (Linda Ross & Associates) who identified the 12 hardship cases and relocated them. Yes...it was the Band who ensured appropriate housing for people with limited options. I don't care what you've heard - I worked through this with the Band and the housing professionals.
Bringing in rich oil money? Tony - you have no idea what you're talking about. THe natives should have built themselves and not sold out to a developer? Again - it is clear you have no idea. The Scianew have sold NOTHING. They are 51% partners in the development of Spirit Bay.
Education? Just white faces? Yes - education underway and yes, Farmer is working with the STEP program and you apparently are not familiar with a whole bunch of very skilled and committed members of Scianew - it is clear you just don't know. I invite you to come out to Scianew and meet me. We can walk the property - look at the campgrounds, talk to the Band members...your view is so horrific-ly distorted. I am going away for a week but invite you to meet me on-site on October 15th - 3pm or suggest an alternative.

#133 darlenet8

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 08:53 PM

Why do shacks in the middle of nowhere need to be razed? How about servicing? You can't even begin to believe how desperately these properties needed to be cleaned up. And the owners have the right to pursue a development opportunity. Oh Canada.

#134 Bob Fugger

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:07 PM

Why do shacks in the middle of nowhere need to be razed? How about servicing? You can't even begin to believe how desperately these properties needed to be cleaned up. And the owners have the right to pursue a development opportunity. Oh Canada.


Is this newest rationalization in addition to or in lieu of your previous argument that this developments needs to be built because of global overpopulation?

#135 darlenet8

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:46 PM

If you read back through the posts, sunshine, you'll see this has been my contention all along, along with growth issues...

#136 AbbyGrad

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:15 AM

I am just wondering if Scianew Band will do anything about the toxic fill that was dumped on their land. How close is it to the new proposed building?http://www.kidsinvic...6302&view=print

#137 James Bay walker

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:09 AM

I believe that Orchard House on Michigan St. is a 99 yr lease building and they have to be at least 30 years into that lease period. Anyone know for sure?

Well, it started August 1974, ends Dec. 31st, 2073 [so, close to 40 years into their 99-yr lease].

As to the financing aspect and the impact on resales, there have been times when: NO financing was available, beyond buyers assuming the original developer's mortgaging: 30-yr amortization, 5 yr renewable, no penalty to pay off (well, duh!) provided at time of sale. And, times when only one (credit union) would finance the place, and then lately, times when a few banks and a few credit unions will finance it.

Title did have an awkward blemish [35 year blanket construction mtg [1970-2005]. It was built as a rental, converted into 'leasehold condominiums'] -- I suspect the blanket mortgage was often the 'straw that broke the camel's back', loan application processing wise. [even worse, it also disqualified "first time home buyers" from government grant programs / special mtg rates/mtg insurance coverage]

jbw

ps. Sigh! I remember when the L.R.O. would not mind even members of the public like myself whiling away an afternoon in their microfilm vaults researching title records to their heart's content and for free, no credentials were even needed. Now it's like Fort Knox and research of any note takes serious pocket change.

editted to add: Maybe it was because the 'leasehold condominium' concept was new and 'strange', but for whatever reason the original sale prices were promptly (six months in?) due to zero sales, dropped 10% (& 10% down & 10% mortgages became the sales pitch -- sounded nice and tidy, good / almost great terms for that period). I attributed that due to lack of interest at the original $/sq.ft. pricing comparable to other steel & concrete highrise (strata/freehold) condos at that time. The 209 units took three full years to sell (& the developer held back 15 or so and only very gradually unloaded those, still has a few).

#138 James Bay walker

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:59 AM

Why do so many on here think natives break contracts around land developments? Natives have hundreds or thousands of of deals all across this country involving their lands, and 99% of them or more work fine. Probably a much higher percentage of working deals than non-native landowners have free of lawsuits with developers.

Probably due to TV shows (a recurring theme at times on 'North of 60'), I suspect (reneging's a popular enough fictional theme which keeps a storyline interesting).

I'm wondering though, precisely where would any disputes be aired and who would decide them? (At least with lawsuits with developers, which are a tough enough nut to crack and not for the timid, the answers are well established.)

jbw

ps. Can't speak to the "99% of them or more work fine" as I don't know your sources.

#139 tony mancini

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:41 AM

Darlenet8
You claim Scianew are living in former trailers?

If I am horrificly distorted. Then why when I went thru the camp site on Sept 30th. I pulled in on the second enterance, not the main one. Right away I notice signs. Lucys place. At old Bobs place. I stopped and asked her. She said she been relocated to his place. She lives next door in BOB OLD PLACE, to the couple who bought a place for 80 grand, back in May. Lucy lived in a cabin in campground. Which had a lot of skids, brokin glass laying around the road. She used the skids for the wood, to heat her cabin. Why I have asked her. She said cause the band would not cut her cords to use. At one time, I thought she was in the skid business, As there was so many.

Darlenet8
None of them are habitable and all are in the process of coming down

Does that include the couple who spent 80 grand on there place in May?

Darlenet8
I take exception to your claim that the Scianew helped hardship cases so they could take over the homes for themselves. What nonsense.

Heard BOB got help from the band. Moved to Abbortsford. Lucy has signs she lives there now. Maybe BOB just gave her the place. Who really know for sure. He was very old. Plus so many rumors around alot of it.

Darlenet8
And did campers help each other? I'm sure they did. But the Band hired housing professionals (Linda Ross & Associates) who identified the 12 hardship cases and relocated them. Yes...it was the Band who ensured appropriate housing for people with limited options. I don't care what you've heard - I worked through this with the Band and the housing professionals.


Yes some of the bands I heard were great, Is Carver Jim still screaming. Also the campers helped as much as the band.


Darlenet8
Bringing in rich oil money? Tony - you have no idea what you're talking about.

Read the Spirit Bay FB. Oil Barons welcome. Which will change it for the local fishermen.

Darlenet8
THe natives should have built themselves and not sold out to a developer? Again - it is clear you have no idea. The Scianew have sold NOTHING. They are 51% partners in the development of Spirit Bay.

49 per cent is a lot. Owning 100 per cent there self. Is the way to go and grow. Selling out, yes , many who lived at Cheanuh were long standing friends, some even went to school with each other. Friends from youth days. Even at events, a female band speaker, would be the MC. State that Cheanuh was a community, friends, who stick together. Why I believe, a lot of ones who lived at Cheanuh were so upset. Hearing from band, about friends , community, ect. When eviction happened, they knew it was all lies. Selling out is not all ways about money.

Darlenet8
Education? Just white faces? Yes - education underway and yes, Farmer is working with the STEP program and you apparently are not familiar with a whole bunch of very skilled and committed members of Scianew - it is clear you just don't know.

There is skilled natives. Also there is non skilled youth. Why I asked this question. As having a new town. Building education for future should be in the blue prints.

Darlenet8
I invite you to come out to Scianew and meet me. We can walk the property - look at the campgrounds, talk to the Band members...your view is so horrific-ly distorted. I am going away for a week but invite you to meet me on-site on October 15th - 3pm or suggest an alternative.

I can walk the property at anytime. Talk to others not selling Spirit Bay. As there is more the just your side and Russ Chipps side. Why i luv a forum then your Spirit Bay FB. Here you can not control. By deleting everything you do not like reading. Mainly from the ex campers aka Cheanuh Community.

Good Luck to yous as the developers. I do hope one day. The natives do take control 100 per cent of there own lives. Not just 51 per cent.

Thank you for this forum.

Tony

#140 tony mancini

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:46 AM

Hey Darlenet8

Thank you for looking into the toxic soil. I know Russ Chipps will say it has all been cleaned up. But I still can not believe that. As no one ever says were that soil ended up. Also i would have those crabs tested. Seems there has been a lot more cancer around Spirit Bay since 2007.

Tony

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