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#41 Mike K.

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:38 PM

Yeah. Like at the library. If you don’t live within the GVPL’s jurisdiction you’re treated differently. I don’t see why municipal facilities subsidized by only certain taxpayers can’t apply the same multi-tiered system.

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#42 Cassidy

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:45 PM

Perhaps there needs to be different pricing structures for residents of municipalities that financially support the R-MT's and residents of municipalities that don't support these venues.

That would definitely work too.

 

I think the take-away from the fact that the topic is now appearing at both the CRD Board level and COV Council level is that something has to be done about the freeloading going on with the 10 municipalities that don't pay a single penny in support of either theatre.

I suppose the second option is to simply shut both theatres down and sell the land for development, giving the majority of the folks in a region now nearing half a million people a taste of what it's like to live in a city with no large scale live theatre, music, dance, opera, and symphony.

 

Stick everything that still bothers to come through town in the SOF arena and turn the two theatres into regional taxpayer funded homeless condos for the drug addicted and criminally inclined ... that sounds like a way better deal than bucking up in support of two grand old theaters presenting a endlessly diverse selection of regional, national, and international talent!


Edited by Cassidy, 09 July 2019 - 02:55 PM.


#43 shoeflack

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 03:06 PM

Yeah. Like at the library. If you don’t live within the GVPL’s jurisdiction you’re treated differently. I don’t see why municipal facilities subsidized by only certain taxpayers can’t apply the same multi-tiered system.

 

They do this with the Cowichan Aquatic Centre in Duncan...it was a contentious issues for a long time with two electoral areas holding out on the funding agreement (Youbou and Honeymoon Bay/Mesachie Lake).

 

Certainly fair for pay-for-use services like rec centres, maybe a specific non-resident ticket surcharge for the theatres, etc. What's a slippery slope is when it get down to the other services that taxpayers cover, such as police, roads, parking, etc.

 

Resident and non-resident rates are so common elsewhere in the world, it's surprising they haven't blossomed in a tourist town like this. We were in Kenya recently paying the $40USD non-resident rate for national park entry fees while the locals has the equivalent of a $5USD entry fee. Didn't bother us!


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#44 LJ

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 07:36 PM

That would definitely work oo.

 

I think the take-away from the fact that the topic is now appearing at both the CRD Board level and COV Council level is that something has to be done about the freeloading going on with the 10 municipalities that don't pay a single penny in support of either theatre.

I suppose the second option is to simply shut both theatres down and sell the land for development, giving the majority of the folks in a region now nearing half a million people a taste of what it's like to live in a city with no large scale live theatre, music, dance, opera, and symphony.

 

Stick everything that still bothers to come through town in the SOF arena and turn the two theatres into regional taxpayer funded homeless condos for the drug addicted and criminally inclined ... that sounds like a way better deal than bucking up in support of two grand old theaters presenting a endlessly diverse selection of regional, national, and international talent!

If you live in another muni and buy a ticket how are you freeloading? 

I have gone to shows at Macpherson several times and have never had to show "my papers".

Raise the ticket price so the venue pays for itself.

Are they sold out every night? Good thinking to restrict your audience then complain about too many empty seats.


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#45 spanky123

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 08:02 PM

If you live in another muni and buy a ticket how are you freeloading? 

I have gone to shows at Macpherson several times and have never had to show "my papers".

Raise the ticket price so the venue pays for itself.

Are they sold out every night? Good thinking to restrict your audience then complain about too many empty seats.

 

Each venue averages about 5 days a month of shows over the course of the year. I would start there.



#46 Midnightly

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 11:58 PM

doesn't langford have some things that have "resident" pricing?  the YMCA drop in i'm pretty sure has a resident and non resident pricing rate, and i do remember reading that the water park out there is free for langford residents but a fee is charged for non-residents.. so the idea of this wouldn't be unheard of for the area



#47 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 03:51 AM

If you live in another muni and buy a ticket how are you freeloading?

 

because it's been shown that we lose more money when we open than if we just stay closed each night.

 

 

He says all the "dark nights" at the theatre mean a loss for taxpayers, who own the building and pay about $750,000 a year to keep it running

 

"The usage has fallen to about 75 [nights] a year," Young told On The Island host Gregor Craigie. "So it's about $10,000 a performance, even though it only costs a group $1,100 or something to rent it."

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/n...empty-1.3350192


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 10 July 2019 - 03:53 AM.


#48 Mike K.

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 06:09 AM

Now recall that the City of Victoria wants to get into the business of real-estate development.


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#49 Cassidy

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 06:33 AM

Each venue averages about 5 days a month of shows over the course of the year. I would start there.

 

Mmmmm, I'm pretty sure that those numbers are simply made up and falsified by folks with an anti-arts agenda. If we're going to have the conversation, lets do some real research, and share some accurate statements.

 

2018 apparently saw 114 shows at the Royal and and 102 shows at the Macpherson:

https://rmts-assets....oklet 2018 .pdf

With each show needing at least a couple of days to build their sets and/or rehearse, both theaters would be occupied pretty much every single day of the year.

 

Here's a detailed description of how the Opera and the Symphony are in the Royal for most of the year (whether there's an actual performance taking place or not):

https://rmts-assets....ril 30 2019.pdf



#50 spanky123

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 06:35 AM

Mmmmm, I'm pretty sure that those numbers are simply made up and falsified by folks with an anti-arts agenda. If we're going to have the conversation, lets do some real research, and share some accurate statements.

 

2018 apparently saw 114 shows at the Royal and and 102 shows at the Macpherson:

https://rmts-assets....oklet 2018 .pdf

With each show needing at least a couple of days to build their sets and/or rehearse, both theaters would be occupied pretty much every single day of the year.

 

Here's a detailed description of how the Opera and the Symphony are in the Royal for most of the year (whether there's an actual performance taking place or not):

https://rmts-assets....ril 30 2019.pdf

 

Go to the calendar and count yourself. I said shows, not days where the theatre was occupied for rehearsals, etc. 



#51 Cassidy

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 06:39 AM

If you live in another muni and buy a ticket how are you freeloading? 

 

Both theaters are publicly owned, and both theaters are operated by a not-for-profit society.

The profit from any tickets sold goes to promoters, not to the theatres themselves.

 

Civic theaters around the world require operational support from the governments that own them.

Publicly owned theaters operated on a non-profit basis obviously don't have a mandate to make a profit, they exist only for the betterment and artistic enrichment of the residents and taxpayers who actually own them.



#52 Cassidy

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 06:44 AM

Go to the calendar and count yourself. I said shows, not days where the theatre was occupied for rehearsals, etc. 

You actually said "Each venue averages about 5 days a month of shows over the course of the year. I would start there."

I've demonstrated that the two theaters are almost constantly occupied throughout the year ... so what do you propose is "started"?

 

Please be very specific.


Edited by Cassidy, 10 July 2019 - 06:45 AM.


#53 shoeflack

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 07:45 AM

Go to the calendar and count yourself. I said shows, not days where the theatre was occupied for rehearsals, etc. 

 

Keep in mind that both venues host quite a few private (i.e.: not listed on the calendar) shows/events each year. So it's impossible to garner an accurate number of performances in the year just by looking at the online calendar alone.



#54 lanforod

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 04:32 PM

If it's only a couple grand to rent it, is it popular for weddings etc?

#55 Cassidy

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:57 AM

Proposal on the COTW agenda this week to again try and have other munis share in the cost of running the Macpherson and increase the participation of Saanich and Oak Bay in the funding of the Royal.

 

Motion passed, so Staff of all three municipalities will meet in order to try and better understand how the funding might be improved and/or streamlined for the Royal Theater in order to better serve the region.

Geoff Young was (literally) the lone duck once again in voting "no" to the motion, as he wants to see any discussion about the Royal also involve the Macpherson, which is disingenuous in that the ownership of both theaters is totally different.

Youngs motivation (which he has clearly explained in past Council meetings) is to cut funding to both theatres to the bone, or get rid of it all together and steer that money into sports and/or something more to his personal taste.

 

Civic Theaters aren't important or required in Young's vision for Victoria.

 

The Macpherson wasn't dealt with in the motion, and being solely funded and owned by the COV, they can pretty much do whatever they want with it whenever they'd like. Getting more municipalities on board is obviously in their best interest ... and even though Young would rather see the Macpherson defunded completely, he still sees the advantage of at least lowering the COV's cost of running it as a sole funder.



#56 Nparker

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 11:00 AM

...Civic Theaters aren't important or required in Young's vision for Victoria...

Despite this, he's still the only person who comes even close to being a voice of reason on CoV council.



#57 Cassidy

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 01:51 PM

Despite this, he's still the only person who comes even close to being a voice of reason on CoV council.

The odd thing is that lefty Councils usually aren't terribly predisposed to the bourgeoisie goings on that take place in a theater, so it's actually quite surprising this all isn't the other way around, with Young supporting and the remainder of Council giving their thumbs down.

 

At the heart of it though ... I suspect Young has an agenda somewhat more complex than he's actually disposed to sharing. 

It all has to do with power, and Young's perception of it being taken from him and handed to somebody else (in this case, the CRD).

 

I believe Young feels stripped of power in situations where the COV fronts money through a by-law to the CRD, and then the CRD spends that money with zero input or control from the COV. Such is the case with both the Macpherson and the Royal (you can see Youngs ongoing distain clearly in the video from last nights meeting).

Young is relatively OK when that money is given to the regional government for use on clean drinking water, hospitals, and sewage treatment ... but he's not "OK" with it when it comes to providing support for the arts and the two civic theaters. 

 

Rather than focusing on balancing any perceived disparity (which the rest of COV Council is doing), Young just wants financial support either completely cut, or put 100% in the hands of the COV Council ... which doesn't work for what are effectively two regional theaters ... two theatres serving exactly the same population of 13 municipalities that are served by the CRD's provision for water, hospitals and sewage.

All this to say that Young probably should have voted "yes" with the rest of Council to last nights motion, as doing so would actually get him what he's seeking. 

That's the problem with an agenda though, in that folks like Young have a difficult (if not impossible) time seeing around their agenda to the actual solution to the issue that seems to so offend them.



#58 Nparker

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 01:57 PM

...That's the problem with an agenda though, in that folks like Young have a difficult (if not impossible) time seeing around their agenda to the actual solution to the issue that seems to so offend them.

And if Geoff Young has a difficult time seeing around his agenda, it's impossible for the rest of Council to see around their agendas (although perhaps not in this particular matter).


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