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Floatplane / seaplane services in Victoria - Harbour Air | Kenmore Air


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#21 LJ

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 08:05 PM

I got that information from Transport Canada - both in written form and in their presentations to City Council at their Standing Committee on the Harbour Airport.


And they said in North America and probably the world?
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#22 Bingo

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 10:13 PM

The city is seeking tougher rules on float planes using the inner harbour.

Eventually there will be enough pressure from the residents who moved to the harbour, only to complain about the noise, that the float planes will be forced out.

The old concept of maintaining a "working Harbour" will become a thing of the past, and it will become a boring place with the only thing left might be a new bridge, a sewage treatment plant in Rock Bay, and mega yachts shore to shore.

So if if you think you want to get rid of some occasional noise pollution today, you may be hastening a move to something much worse tomorrow.

#23 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 08:58 AM

The city is seeking tougher rules on float planes using the inner harbour.

Eventually there will be enough pressure from the residents who moved to the harbour, only to complain about the noise, that the float planes will be forced out.

The old concept of maintaining a "working Harbour" will become a thing of the past, and it will become a boring place with the only thing left might be a new bridge, a sewage treatment plant in Rock Bay, and mega yachts shore to shore.

So if if you think you want to get rid of some occasional noise pollution today, you may be hastening a move to something much worse tomorrow.


I'm not so sure. The City is asking the Federal government to do something (in very wishy-washy wording - "sustainability", "quality of life" etc.), but the feds have not indicated if they will do anything. Right now they have no rules about noise or emmissions.

#24 Bob Fugger

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:18 AM

The city is seeking tougher rules on float planes using the inner harbour.

Eventually there will be enough pressure from the residents who moved to the harbour, only to complain about the noise, that the float planes will be forced out.

The old concept of maintaining a "working Harbour" will become a thing of the past...


Stuff like this fascinates me. How can people who moved to the area KNOWING that this a working harbour (let's be honest, I don't see how anyone could not figure that out, with a seaplane leaving every 15-30 minutes), and now they bytch and whine that it's too noisy. It's like the old lady that lives next door to me and gets pissy when my tenants (of a legal duplex and not a secondary suite, I might add) park in front of her house, which is on a non-regulated street. If you can't deal with reality, MOVE!!

#25 piltdownman

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:24 AM

^I agree 100%. It will be a shame if the float planes were to leave the inner harbor. Its the same as the people who have moved into the heritage conversion across from Lucky Bar and are now raising a fuss about the noise.

Eliminating the harbor planes would be bad for business and high end tourism in our city.

#26 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:37 AM

^I agree 100%. It will be a shame if the float planes were to leave the inner harbor. Its the same as the people who have moved into the heritage conversion across from Lucky Bar and are now raising a fuss about the noise.

Eliminating the harbor planes would be bad for business and high end tourism in our city.


Is there a more-suitable place for them? I mean they likely do not have to be right in the harbour, it's not like our airport is at Hillside and Douglas. But I'm just throwing it out there, is there a better place for a seaplane base and runway?

#27 piltdownman

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:45 AM

The float planes provide a great downtown to downtown service. If you take the float planes out of downtown it would negate that benefit. Plus if you move them elsewhere they are just going to bother someone else. It seems fair, at least to me that the noise should bother those that moved in knowing that the seaplanes operated there, rather than someone who lives somewhere else and would have seaplanes forced on them.

#28 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 10:19 AM

The float planes provide a great downtown to downtown service. If you take the float planes out of downtown it would negate that benefit. Plus if you move them elsewhere they are just going to bother someone else. It seems fair, at least to me that the noise should bother those that moved in knowing that the seaplanes operated there, rather than someone who lives somewhere else and would have seaplanes forced on them.


I've suggested here more than once that I think a floatplane from Swartz Bay or Sidney to Vancouver (downtown or DeltaPort) would be workable, and a big bonus is parking at each side. Right now the planes waste a good deal of time in the 5mph taxi in and out of our harbour, and they also waste time/fuel with the big circle route around Oak Bay and up the peninsula.

Or could we base them at Ogden Point? http://maps.google.c...19,0.04343&z=15

#29 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 10:31 AM

In high summer, BCF takes thousands of walk-ons (14 sailings each way) each day on route #1. Don't you think a couple of hundred would take the plane, maybe at least one way each day, if the fare was $39-49, with flights leaving every 20 minutes or 1/2 hour?

#30 piltdownman

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 10:56 AM

Saltspring Air already flies from Sidney (Maple Bay) to Downtown already. Its cheaper than from downtown, but I think its only once a day (and mid morning) and thus has never worked for me. I know if the times were more often it would become my first choice, as I travel to Vancouver often and am always wrestling with the ferry vs flying option.

I have also wondered if a business case could be made for operating a larger aircraft and lowering the cost from downtown. There is a DC-3 float plane that operates back east.

#31 piltdownman

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 11:05 AM

This is getting way off topic, but I have also been finding that Aircanada sometimes has fares for about $69. When I go to Vancouver its always the the first place I check. I have picked up a couple flights at $73 and $89 this fall. With the Canada Line its really quick to get downtown.

#32 G-Man

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 12:22 PM

I've suggested here more than once that I think a floatplane from Swartz Bay or Sidney to Vancouver (downtown or DeltaPort) would be workable, and a big bonus is parking at each side. Right now the planes waste a good deal of time in the 5mph taxi in and out of our harbour, and they also waste time/fuel with the big circle route around Oak Bay and up the peninsula.

Or could we base them at Ogden Point? http://maps.google.c...19,0.04343&z=15



This already exists from the YYJ Floatplane base.

EDIT: Oops see Piltdownman has already pointed this out. If you are already going out to Swartz bay then why would not just fly from the Airport to YVR and then take the Skytrain into town. As stated elsewhere Orca Air is now offering 45 + tax to fly to YVR from YYJ.

As for moving the float planes I think that this is a bad idea for the reasons stated above. I mean Helijet is already a pain due to its location. I guess if all flight services were there and the planes took off heading out of the harbour that may work.

They have to land in the harbour though so that will always be there.

I hope that that Feds laugh and toss this letter from CoV in the bin where it belongs.

#33 piltdownman

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 01:36 PM

There are two problems with Orca Air. Firstly they only fly twice a day; once in the early am, and another mid morning. Nothing late afternoon/evening which I see as a real weakness. Secondly it goes to the South terminal at YVR, so you have to catch the shuttle to go to skytrain or connect to another flight. Still a great option if you have a meeting during the day in Vancouver.

Is there somewhere were we can see what the letter from the CoV sent to the Feds? I really find it interesting if the City is willing to take the side of residence in a building that was built knowing about the noise, over business in the city.

#34 North Shore

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 01:52 PM

Stuff like this fascinates me. How can people who moved to the area KNOWING that this a working harbour (let's be honest, I don't see how anyone could not figure that out, with a seaplane leaving every 15-30 minutes), and now they bytch and whine that it's too noisy.

In fairness to the Songhees residents, who have been the main whiners to date about noise, they were shown their suites (IIRC) in the middle of November, when floatplane traffic was way down from its summer peak. That being said, Bob, I do agree.

Ogden Point probably wouldn't work. Taxiing in and out is fine, but if there's any sort of swell running (not to mention a south wind) then takeoff and landing would become dangerous and tricky..

WRT emissions - Harbour AIr offsets the entire company's emissions through Offsetters.ca. Beyond that, there's not much more that can be done, IMO. Any way you slice it, a Beaver burns ~ 25gallons/hour, a Turbine Otter roughly double that, and a Twin Otter, double that. Short of running the turbines on some sort of biofuel (being worked on by Virgin Airways, for one) then there's no other options. With fuel prices the way they are, every airline is actively seeking ways to run as efficiently as possible.

The DC3 on floats is a cool thing - but if you think that there's complaints about the noise now, just wait! Also, takeoff space available, docking issues etc.. make it a little impractical...
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?

#35 aastra

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 02:34 PM

I don't see much of a difference between the mission to eject the floatplanes and the mission to eject the Coho and the mission to replace the bridge. The overall goal is the same in each case: to eliminate a little bit more of what makes Victoria a unique and interesting place.

There are waterfront condominiums all over this province that aren't smack in the center of a busy urban harbour. Heck, there are waterfront condominiums in other parts of Victoria that aren't smack in the center of a busy urban harbour. If the inner harbour scene doesn't suit your tastes then you have innumerable options.

#36 Bob Fugger

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 02:59 PM

Saltspring Air already flies from Sidney (Maple Bay) to Downtown already.


Ummm, AFAIK, Maple Bay is just past Genoa Bay on the east coast of the Cowichan Valley Regional District - not Sidney.

#37 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 03:33 PM

Ummm, AFAIK, Maple Bay is just past Genoa Bay on the east coast of the Cowichan Valley Regional District - not Sidney.


I think the poster meant Pat Bay.

#38 G-Man

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 03:47 PM

In fairness to the Songhees residents, who have been the main whiners to date about noise, they were shown their suites (IIRC) in the middle of November, when floatplane traffic was way down from its summer peak. That being said, Bob, I do agree.


All the Songhees residents in all the buildings that were built over at least a 15 year period looked at their suites in one November? I don't think so.

There are places for sale in the Songhees year round so I won't buy that for a second.

#39 piltdownman

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 05:49 PM

I think the poster meant Pat Bay.


Nope I'm really wrong. They actually do fly out of way up at maple bay. I swear they have a billboard on the highway that says flights out of sidney and this summer I was in a najijo that came too close to a saltspring air plane whilst landing at YYJ.

Pat Bay Airways flies out of pat bay, although they look to only be doing charters.

#40 piltdownman

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 05:52 PM

In fairness to the Songhees residents, who have been the main whiners to date about noise, they were shown their suites (IIRC) in the middle of November, when floatplane traffic was way down from its summer peak. That being said, Bob, I do agree..


I fail to see how that is the city's or the float planes problem. Either the owners didn't do their research or if they were really mislead they should sue the developer, no?

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