682 replies to this topic

[splashflash]

why were those flights abandoned?  compared to inflation, have short flights risen much higher in cost for some reason?
 
will electric flights make short, say 15-minute sightsteeeing flights feasible?  how about port angeles or friday harbour flights?  or sidney to the gulf islands?
 
screenshot-www.google.ca-2020.05.30-09_11_51.png

Or even Duncan to YVR South Terminal, Comox to Victoria, or Tofino to Nanaimo. I doubt the South Island Transportation Review would have the foresite to include possible mode improvements such as this, despite the potential Harbour Air certification of electric Beavers. I do expect the report to eschew the E&N Railway reactivation, but this would simply be another blow against the ICF white elephant. For example, harbour to harbour flights of electric planes could occur between Cowichan Bay and Victoria, perhaps? More frequent flights (previously byIsland Express) between Cassidy (YCD)and YYJ?

"The Magni500 consumed about $6 worth of electricity during the Grand Caravan’s 30min test flight, he adds."

I guess fuel inflation since the 1960s wiped out a lot off the short-haul flights, among other reasons. The battery cost and economics will of course determine how quickly this would catch on.

[Mike K.]

I guess it all depends on how long it takes to recharge that battery. If it needs about 50kWh for 30 minutes of operations it’ll take at least several hours to fully charge the thing with the fastest chargers available.

Can you make that work? I dunno. Harbour Air turns its aircraft around in minutes.

[splashflash]

I guess it all depends on how long it takes to recharge that battery. If it needs about 50kWh for 30 minutes of operations it’ll take at least several hours to fully charge the thing with the fastest chargers available.
Can you make that work? I dunno. Harbour Air turns its aircraft around in minutes.

"In airline service, operators would need to recharge the batteries between flights, with charging times correlating closely to flight times, says Ganzarski. That means the batteries would need about 30-40min of charging following a 30min flight. The weight of the batteries makes swapping spent cells for fresh cells unfeasible between flights, he says."

[Mike K.]

Yikes, eh? Make it 45 minutes of operations and you’re at an hour of charging, minimum. Then you’ve got lag hooking up the battery, lag unhooking it. You arrive and there’s already a plan charging, etc, now you wait.

Not good for an airline. They make money flying, mot sitting around.

[Victoria Watcher]

that’s another reason they must be very short flights. turnaround time is the same for a 15 minute flight or a 45 minute one. island hopping around the gulf islands maybe.

[Rob Randall]

I had a great idea but now I'm not sure it will work.

[exc911ence]

The electric plane could tow a glider behind it that contains a diesel-powered generator to top up the tow-plane's batteries. 

 

Works for electric cars....

 

[lanforod]

"In airline service, operators would need to recharge the batteries between flights, with charging times correlating closely to flight times, says Ganzarski. That means the batteries would need about 30-40min of charging following a 30min flight. The weight of the batteries makes swapping spent cells for fresh cells unfeasible between flights, he says."

 

I don't understand the weight issue at all. Why would weight make battery swaps unfeasible?

[spanky123]

I don't understand the weight issue at all. Why would weight make battery swaps unfeasible?

 

Because the battery is a tonne.

Edited by spanky123, 01 June 2020 - 10:47 AM.

[spanky123]

Not sure I understand the math. The engines generate 647KW of power which (assuming 80% avg power use on a short flight) would be about 250KW for 30 minutes of travel. That is a lot more than $6 put still far less than fuel. I would have thought though that fuel costs would be a small portion of a short haul flight, most of the costs would be in labour and plane/infrastructure overhead.

 

It should also be noted that LI batteries don't charge linearly, charging to 100% capacity takes far longer than 2 x 50% capacity.

[Rob Randall]

Not sure I understand the math. The engines generate 647KW of power

 

Apparently that's like 880 horsepower. 

 

I guess they could build some sort of rail on the dock and a davit/winch system. I wouldn't want to drop that battery into the harbour.

[Mike K.]

Seems hokier and hokier the more you do the math. You’re going to have aircraft sitting around charging all the time instead of making money.

[Victoria Watcher]

doesn’t the takeoff burn lots of fuel per forward metre compared to cruising speed fuel consumption? so short flights would have more costly fuel burn to gain altitude at s slower forward speed. more minutes of climb as a percentage of overall flight time. Often you leave the harbour here are circle oak bay and you are not at 4000 feet until Cordova bay.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 June 2020 - 11:23 AM.

[Mike K.]

A little bit of wind will also wreak havoc on the already limited range.

[spanky123]

Seems hokier and hokier the more you do the math. You’re going to have aircraft sitting around charging all the time instead of making money.

 

I'd bet they already made their money. No doubt a few million in Government grants and funding.

[vortoozo]

A little bit of wind will also wreak havoc on the already limited range.

 

Seems hokier and hokier the more you do the math. You’re going to have aircraft sitting around charging all the time instead of making money.

 

Why all the doom and gloom? Have to start somewhere. The first gas airplane couldn't fly very far, either.

[Victoria Watcher]

exactly.

[Mike K.]

Why all the doom and gloom? Have to start somewhere. The first gas airplane couldn't fly very far, either.

I get that, but then say that.

They don’t need to hype it like they are. Be genuine.

Their path is the same path the green energy industry took, with hype hype hype, and now it’s a miserable mess because the hype never lived up to real world results.

[Victoria Watcher]

if they don't hype it they don't get government grants (that don't make any economic sense).

[Rob Randall]

There are some federal grants like NSERC that expect risk. You can't get a grant unless you push the limits of technology. Safe projects don't qualify.