959 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

^ I am not comparing our military to that of other countries. I am comparing our military to our own military 10-20 years ago. Did sailors or army folks do stupid things back then sure. Was it to the scale and magnitude of what we are seeing today no.

[Bingo]

Not at all to minimize or deflect your points spanky but *all* military orgs - all of them - have similar issues covering a spate of transgressions. Nothing new in your list unfortunately.

 

 

Then you had this.

 

Thousands of explicit photos that Col. Russell Williams took while wearing women's and girls' lingerie show how his sexual obsession escalated from lesser crimes to sexual assault and murder.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...harges-1.872289

 

[57WestHills]

I'm curious if you have any constructive measure other than a media article to state that the severity of crime has gone up in the military? 20 years ago sexual assaults were so out of control in the military basic human rights training was required for everyone. A new subunit of the Military Police was also created to deal with severity of offences. Additionally the number of Military Police files has been on a decline in raw numbers and on the crime severity index since they started measuring in 1994.

The reality is in 2016 people are more aware of what's going on in terms of crime than they ever would have been twenty years ago. Three drug charges for a navy ship after deployment? That's actually really low. For years they had to sweep ships with dogs when they got back. Due to declines in drug trafficking in the Navy this was stopped for the most part.

[AllseeingEye]

^ I am not comparing our military to that of other countries. I am comparing our military to our own military 10-20 years ago. Did sailors or army folks do stupid things back then sure. Was it to the scale and magnitude of what we are seeing today no.

I get that. I comprehend English rather well. And you know this for certain how?

 

"Back in the day" in other words back to the 70's I knew lots of naval personnel in particular with alcohol and other dependency issues. The difference then is that in general "issues" as described above were kept quiet, in-house and out of the media unless it involved the commission of a serious crime. And back then every one and their dog wasn't an amateur roving reporter constantly uploading pictures and commentary to the cloud. Compared to then or even 10-20 years there is far more transparency today in terms of problems encountered, or crimes committed by, CAF personnel.

 

The fact of the matter is unless you've filed an FOI request or work in the JAG office or work for the Canadian Forces NIS you have no idea and cannot state with certainty whether the scale and scope of the issues involving military personnel today is higher, lower or about the same as 10-20 or more years ago. 

[spanky123]

In order to apply for the armed forces these days you only need a minimum of a grade 10 education and may have a criminal record. That certainly wasn't the case a decade ago.

[VANRIDERFAN]

^ I am not comparing our military to that of other countries. I am comparing our military to our own military 10-20 years ago. Did sailors or army folks do stupid things back then sure. Was it to the scale and magnitude of what we are seeing today no.

Were you in the military 20 years ago? The crazy **** that went on; booze, broads and brawls was a foreign port staple. None of that was ever really reported and the ships internal disciplinary system took care of most of the problems and then there was club Ed (CFB Edmonton Detention Barracks) for the really bad boys.

As for the Grade 10 being only recently? No, that has been the minimum requirement for a very long time.

[Dietrich]

Sad. At one point in the not too distant past being a member of our armed forces was something to be respected for and proud of.

 

While they are members of the Forces, a face of our country, they are human and face the struggles in life the rest of us do. I'm not saying it excuses the latest that's happened, but substance abuse exists in all areas, professions, and likely most, if not all, militaries around the world.

[Dietrich]

^ I am not comparing our military to that of other countries. I am comparing our military to our own military 10-20 years ago. Did sailors or army folks do stupid things back then sure. Was it to the scale and magnitude of what we are seeing today no.

 

Sure it was, it just wasn't fodder for media and even worse, social media, like it is now. If anything boozing and whatever else was a far bigger problem.

[spanky123]

Were you in the military 20 years ago? The crazy **** that went on; booze, broads and brawls was a foreign port staple. None of that was ever really reported and the ships internal disciplinary system took care of most of the problems and then there was club Ed (CFB Edmonton Detention Barracks) for the really bad boys.

 

 

As for the Grade 10 being only recently? No, that has been the minimum requirement for a very long time.

 

We can agree to disagree. I have never seen anything less than a GED as a requirement and never seen people with criminal records openly recruited.

 

Sure people boozed and did stupid things and many even spent a night sobering up in cells, but that is different then being charged with a crime.

[Dietrich]

We can agree to disagree. I have never seen anything less than a GED as a requirement and never seen people with criminal records openly recruited.

 

Sure people boozed and did stupid things and many even spent a night sobering up in cells, but that is different then being charged with a crime.

 

You do not have to have a GED to apply to join the forces as an NCM. That being said, you do have to do a variation of an IQ test to determine which trades are open to you. As for a criminal record, that also does not instantly eliminate you, but would also depend on what type of crime, whether you have pardons, etc.

 

Keep in mind, acquiring a criminal record while in the forces also won't get you kicked out (but in some cases will depending on severity ) and that includes crimes of theft, assault, sexual assault, and other serious crimes.

[tedward]

Did sailors or army folks do stupid things back then sure. Was it to the scale and magnitude of what we are seeing today no.

 

 

LOL, that is a joke right? They got away with it back then. Incidents were either not reported or covered up.

[spanky123]

LOL, that is a joke right? They got away with it back then. Incidents were either not reported or covered up.

 

They are still not reported or covered up. The only time you hear about something is if it can't be contained.

[Mike K.]

This is not true. The military has been forced to react to a changing world, hence things like Op Honour. There are more women in the forces, transgendered people, gays and lesbians and that has necessitated a major change in how the military conducts its affairs and how it reacts to poor behaviour among its ranks.

Word spreads so quickly among the ranks, and eventually leaks out, that there is no longer the choice of what is and what is not revealed or openly dealt with.

[LJ]

AllseeingEye, on 03 Feb 2016 - 8:52 PM, said:

 

 

Then there was the episode with a certain major Western navy (not ours) on maneuvers in the Mediterranean many years ago in the 80's - when being homosexual was not a path to higher rank, or any rank - where one unfortunate rating decided to come clean to his immediate superior about being gay. Wrong move. Very wrong move. He was shortly thereafter "accidentally" over-boarded and made to tread water in the middle of that sea while the ship leisurely cruised around him for about 20 minutes before retrieving him. The message was simple and direct: think long and very hard about your future. Because its not in this navy....

He got off lucky. One on our boat was never found after he went overboard.

[spanky123]

Sailors identified. http://vancouverisla...ified-1.2767143

 

The son of the former CDS and the son of a former rear-admiral. CTV VI suggesting that cocaine was involved. Looks like they were both LT(N) / Captain officers.

 

Just made my earlier point about things being a little different these days.

 

Edit: Jack Lawson, son of our former CDS, was not charged after the results of his drug test came back.

Edited by spanky123, 05 February 2016 - 08:10 PM.

[VicHockeyFan]

I like the cocaine angle.

[Benezet]

[Deleted]

Edited by Benezet, 05 February 2016 - 09:04 PM.

[VicHockeyFan]

I guess where there is smoke there is fire.


Why a modern nation prosecutes simple cocaine use seems odd to me.

[Benezet]

I guess where there is smoke there is fire.
 

 

Or free-basing.

[lanforod]

I like the cocaine angle.

 

Pot is detectable weeks later, so military often go for harder drugs that are flushed out after a couple of days.