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2019 Canadian Federal Election - general discussion


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#4041 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 02:13 PM

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will only participate in two out of five election debates, both of which will be chaired by the Leader’s Debates Commission.

 

Trudeau, the leader of the Liberal party, will participate in an English debate (scheduled for Monday, October 7) and a French debate (scheduled for Thursday, October 10).

 

According to sources who told La Presse, the Liberals believe “there is not much benefit for us to participate in all these debates.”

 

Trudeau will not participate in debates hosted by Maclean’s, Munk Debates, and the TVA.

 

 

https://www.thepostm...ity-of-debates/


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 September 2019 - 02:13 PM.


#4042 FogPub

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 03:20 PM

^This annoys me.

 

Benefit or not, it should be mandatory for at least the sitting PM and the current leader of the opposition to participate in all these debates; better yet if participation was mandatory for the leader of any party currently holding seats in parliament or, even though seatless, has candidates in at least 75% of the ridings nationwide.


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#4043 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 03:23 PM

let's lower the voting age to eight!

 

https://18to8.ca/#top



#4044 RFS

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 04:48 PM

let's lower the voting age to eight!

https://18to8.ca/#top


"why stop at 8? Because you can't mobilise 7 year olds"
Wow. At least they are honest

#4045 AllseeingEye

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 05:57 PM

As a Freemason your duties include prayers to God to reaffirm your dependence on God and seek divine guidance from God, but you call Scheer's Catholic faith a belief in an imaginary sky-fairy.

 

I don't think that's fair.

Heh...not even sure where to begin with this since this is Federal Election thread not a debate about masonic principles. Suffice to say you are a little off....

 

First FM is not a religion - as the fraternity has taken great pains for 300 years to explain. We absolutely do not "pray" to any "god". Be it God, Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah etc. Like.....ever

 

Second FM is in an intensely personal experience that varies from mason to mason: ask ten masons from FM means to them and you will get ten different answers, guaranteed. The "G" on the ring most assuredly does not stand exclusively for "God" - for some (older) masons it can and does, but equally it stands in the modern usage for the science of Geometry: we generally don't acknowledge God per se as it implies an exclusively Christian deity. Some older members will certainly state that "G" stands for God - or more appropriately in the FM context, the Grand Architect.

 

However the most common interpretation is that the "G" stands equally for Geometry, and is to remind Masons that Geometry and Freemasonry are synonymous terms described as being the apex of the sciences, and "the basis upon which the superstructure of Freemasonry, and everything in existence in the entire universe is erected." Geometry is considered the most noble of the Seven Liberal Arts, and is a concept held in the highest regard within the fraternity. It can also stand for God, but not exclusively so and in any event we prefer the Grand Architect of the Universe as that makes it uniformly non-denominational.

 

The Square and Compasses (or, more correctly, a square and a set of compasses joined together) is the single most identifiable symbol of Freemasonry. Both the square and compasses are architect's tools and are used in Masonic ritual as emblems to teach symbolic lessons. Most Lodges in Canada and rituals explain these symbols as lessons in conduct: for example, Duncan's Masonic Monitor of 1866 explains them as: "The square, to square our actions; the compasses, to circumscribe and keep us within bounds with all mankind". However, as Freemasonry is non-dogmatic, there is no general interpretation for these symbols (or any Masonic symbol, including "G") that is used by Freemasonry as a whole.

 

Rule Number One on the list of "Thou shalt not...." in any lodge is that it is absolutely verboten to discuss Religion, of or in any form. Rule Number Two is "Thou shalt not...." discuss politics in lodge. Both subjects are considered prime examples of precisely what it is that Divides Men. FM considers itself a organization for improving the human condition, not dividing it. Talk about either topic and you'll be compelled to ride the goat blindfolded and naked for a month and your access key to the alien mother-ship will be revoked.

 

Most critically, regardless of how you interpret masonic teaching the key difference between me and Andrew Scheer et al., is that I am not running for public office.

 

I will not have influence over key cabinet votes on policies ranging from abortion to LGBT rights. My beliefs, regardless whether they encompass the relationship between geometric principles and human development and evolution, or whether I think that the Flying Spaghetti Monster really exists, will have zero impact on you, your family and friends. So yes IMO my judgement of Scheer and other political leaders is more than fair. As a citizen, as a voter and as a taxpayer. They can and should be scrutinized, and from top to bottom.....

 

I'm not gay nor am I a woman. But leaders who allow their personal religious or other beliefs to guide their thinking on key public policy issues like those and other similar subjects, certainly can and do have potentially dire consequences on average persons. I direct your attention to the recent moves in the US South where Wade vs Roe is under real threat by courts in Alabama and several other states because key lawmakers and judicial officials are personally anti-abortion because their church and/or religious beliefs do not condone abortion. Its a damn slippery slope and as I said earlier there is a very good reason why we have separation of Church and State in this country.

 

For those and other reasons I will probably toss in my lot with the Greens; they have no chance of forming government but given how the Libs and Tories are literally neck and neck, and the NDP is sliding into oblivion, the Greens stand an excellent chance of being the power brokers in any minority situation.

 

Last I looked polls were shading toward a Tory minority; more than ever then with the 'proclivities' and personal beliefs of an Andrew Scheer I would be quite happy to have another mechanism in the form of the Greens acting as a brake on that gentleman. Besides with the world clearly heading towards a tipping point ecologically I have no issue whatsoever if a Green party environmental platform or plank or two is incorporated into a Tory policy (or two), as the price they must pay for Green support. Ditto if the result happens to come down in favor of Trudeau.


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#4046 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 06:13 PM

tipping point ecologically? please expand.

#4047 Casual Kev

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 06:15 PM

^This annoys me.

 

Benefit or not, it should be mandatory for at least the sitting PM and the current leader of the opposition to participate in all these debates; better yet if participation was mandatory for the leader of any party currently holding seats in parliament or, even though seatless, has candidates in at least 75% of the ridings nationwide.

 

Surely candidates shouldn't be compelled to debate in privately-hosted events.


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#4048 RFS

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 06:22 PM

Heh...not even sure where to begin with this since this is Federal Election thread not a debate about masonic principles. Suffice to say you are a little off....

First FM is not a religion - as the fraternity has taken great pains for 300 years to explain. We absolutely do not "pray" to any "god". Be it God, Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah etc. Like.....ever.

Second FM is in an intensely personal experience that varies from mason to mason: ask ten masons from FM means to them and you will get ten different answers, guaranteed. The "G" on the ring most assuredly does not stand exclusively for "God" - for some (older) masons it can and does, but equally it stands in the modern usage for the science of Geometry: we generally don't acknowledge God per se as it implies an exclusively Christian deity. Some older members will certainly state that "G" stands for God - or more appropriately in the FM context, the Grand Architect.

However the most common interpretation is that the "G" stands equally for Geometry, and is to remind Masons that Geometry and Freemasonry are synonymous terms described as being the apex of the sciences, and "the basis upon which the superstructure of Freemasonry, and everything in existence in the entire universe is erected." Geometry is considered the most noble of the Seven Liberal Arts, and is a concept held in the highest regard within the fraternity. It can also stand for God, but not exclusively so and in any event we prefer the Grand Architect of the Universe as that makes it uniformly non-denominational.

The Square and Compasses (or, more correctly, a square and a set of compasses joined together) is the single most identifiable symbol of Freemasonry. Both the square and compasses are architect's tools and are used in Masonic ritual as emblems to teach symbolic lessons. Most Lodges in Canada and rituals explain these symbols as lessons in conduct: for example, Duncan's Masonic Monitor of 1866 explains them as: "The square, to square our actions; the compasses, to circumscribe and keep us within bounds with all mankind". However, as Freemasonry is non-dogmatic, there is no general interpretation for these symbols (or any Masonic symbol, including "G") that is used by Freemasonry as a whole.

Rule Number One on the list of "Thou shalt not...." in any lodge is that it is absolutely verboten to discuss Religion, of or in any form. Rule Number Two is "Thou shalt not...." discuss politics in lodge. Both subjects are considered prime examples of precisely what it is that Divides Men. FM considers itself a organization for improving the human condition, not dividing it. Talk about either topic and you'll be compelled to ride the goat blindfolded and naked for a month and your access key to the alien mother-ship will be revoked.

Most critically, regardless of how you interpret masonic teaching the key difference between me and Andrew Scheer et al., is that I am not running for public office.

I will not have influence over key cabinet votes on policies ranging from abortion to LGBT rights. My beliefs, regardless whether they encompass the relationship between geometric principles and human development and evolution, or whether I think that the Flying Spaghetti Monster really exists, will have zero impact on you, your family and friends. So yes IMO my judgement of Scheer and other political leaders is more than fair. As a citizen, as a voter and as a taxpayer. They can and should be scrutinized, and from top to bottom.....

I'm not gay nor am I a woman. But leaders who allow their personal religious or other beliefs to guide their thinking on key public policy issues like those and other similar subjects, certainly can and do have potentially dire consequences on average persons. I direct your attention to the recent moves in the US South where Wade vs Roe is under real threat by courts in Alabama and several other states because key lawmakers and judicial officials are personally anti-abortion because their church and/or religious beliefs do not condone abortion. Its a damn slippery slope and as I said earlier there is a very good reason why we have separation of Church and State in this country.

For those and other reasons I will probably toss in my lot with the Greens; they have no chance of forming government but given how the Libs and Tories are literally neck and neck, and the NDP is sliding into oblivion, the Greens stand an excellent chance of being the power brokers in any minority situation.

Last I looked polls were shading toward a Tory minority; more than ever then with the 'proclivities' and personal beliefs of an Andrew Scheer I would be quite happy to have another mechanism in the form of the Greens acting as a brake on that gentleman. Besides with the world clearly heading towards a tipping point ecologically I have no issue whatsoever if a Green party environmental platform or plank or two is incorporated into a Tory policy (or two), as the price they must pay for Green support. Ditto if the result happens to come down in favor of Trudeau.


I find it hilarious that you talk smack about "sky faries" when you belong to a qausi-religous organization that you are clearly very defensive and sensitive about and that is an obvious surrogate for organized religion in your life.

#4049 Mike K.

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 06:22 PM

I never said you discuss religion in your lodge, ASE, but God, the “God,” is a pivotal component of your fraternity. Or a sky-fairy, as you put it.

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#4050 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 06:28 PM

Surely candidates shouldn't be compelled to debate in privately-hosted events.


nope. nor should we have taxpayer funded debate commission. let the leaders just work it all out. remember the Christie Clark John Horgan radio Debate? that was also online? low production value and cost. worked just fine.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 September 2019 - 06:30 PM.

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#4051 rjag

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 07:15 PM

https://twitter.com/...432280651071488

 

The Liberal campaign offered to help a candidate who made anti-Semitic posts develop a communications strategy. To repeat, upon seeing the hateful comments they didn’t disqualify him but instead offered to help him spin. Think about that for a minute.

 

https://www.theglobe...ial-media-past/

 

Turfed Liberal candidate says party knew about his social-media past

 


Edited by rjag, 04 September 2019 - 07:17 PM.


#4052 LJ

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 07:23 PM

Not seeing any enticing options here.

No, I agree. I will vote for the conservative's, and accept Scheer as PM. Maybe he will surprise a lot of people. At least that's what I hope.


Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#4053 rjag

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 07:27 PM

https://youtu.be/UpOE59SinhE

 

In case anyone forgot, here's Lizzy May's press gallery speech....



#4054 AllseeingEye

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 07:49 PM

I find it hilarious that you talk smack about "sky faries" when you belong to a qausi-religous organization that you are clearly very defensive and sensitive about and that is an obvious surrogate for organized religion in your life.

I find it equally amusing you completely missed the point of the post. I will use small tiny words for your edification, perhaps that will help. FM. Is. Not. A. Religion. Not. Even. "Quasi". I find it more amusing that someone who clearly knows nothing of the order presumes to comment on it. 

 

I note the tone on many of your posts is typically dismissive and/or 'superior', as if you alone possess the "right" answer to whatever topic happens to be. I would suggest you ratchet it down a few degrees, even when you disagree or hold on a contrary viewpoint. You might find you actually learn a thing or two from time to time - I certainly have on this forum - including how to use the term 'defensive' in proper context.

 

If I were defensive about FM I'd either maintain silence of any relationship to it, and/or more likely decline to comment about it altogether, neither of which is the case. I am quite proudly a fifth generation mason, period end sentence. I will openly talk about it 1) if asked and 2) if incorrect or inaccurate information is posted. Defensive? Hardly...



#4055 Mike K.

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 08:13 PM

https://youtu.be/UpOE59SinhE

In case anyone forgot, here's Lizzy May's press gallery speech....

“Maybe he doesn’t like to be with humans,” May said of Harper who didn’t care to attend the press gallery shindig.

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#4056 rjag

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 08:37 PM

“Maybe he doesn’t like to be with humans,” May said of Harper who didn’t care to attend the press gallery shindig.

 

Underneath that smile lies a very vicious and unstable persona.  



#4057 Casual Kev

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 08:39 PM

What's the scoop on the Victoria riding candidates? Outside of Collins I struggle to remember who else is in the running, even though she's 3rd in polls.



#4058 FogPub

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 11:07 PM

The "G" on the ring most assuredly does not stand exclusively for "God" - for some (older) masons it can and does, but equally it stands in the modern usage for the science of Geometry: we generally don't acknowledge God per se as it implies an exclusively Christian deity. Some older members will certainly state that "G" stands for God - or more appropriately in the FM context, the Grand Architect.

 

However the most common interpretation is that the "G" stands equally for Geometry ...

The 'G' should stand for Gravity, without which none of us would be here.



#4059 FogPub

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 11:08 PM

What's the scoop on the Victoria riding candidates? Outside of Collins I struggle to remember who else is in the running, even though she's 3rd in polls.

All I know is that on looking at the candidates list in this forum I find we have a Rhino running in Victoria - and that might just be all I need to know this time around... :)



#4060 Mike K.

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 04:51 AM

What's the scoop on the Victoria riding candidates? Outside of Collins I struggle to remember who else is in the running, even though she's 3rd in polls.


Here you go: https://vibrantvicto...t-south-island/

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