184 replies to this topic

[sdwright.vic]

^I see corporate tax retu3on a regular basis...

Wrong

[Casual Kev]

Communism as envisioned by ideologues can never happen. The closest things you had to "faded state communism" were civil war Catalonia and Revolutionary Ukraine but their inability to secure borders and rule of law obviously made them very short-lived regimes. Cuba's been the closest one in terms of stable communist governments, but it's obviously had to be dictatorial and tell dissidents to get out of the country. Taking away most forms of private ownership and initiative means less productivity and more power concentrated at the hands of political leaders, inherently causing poverty and a power gap that would take impeccable planning and complete population buy-in to address. Evidently, virtually every communist regime that's lasted more than a few years figured it was just easier to go all the way with the monopoly of power and resources due to their already privileged position within the new society and control of the armed forces/law enforcement. The whole structure is set up to fail because you're trusting people who are vaguely accountable at best and certainly ill-prepared to know all the workings of economics and civil society to allocate the entirety of power and resources.

[Mike K.]

Sd, are you referring to the corporate taxes of publicly traded corporations or incorporated businesses operated by Bill down the street or the local barber?

[sdwright.vic]

and
“The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase its Profits” Milton Friedman

Except during the time employees were considered a asset instead of a disability (liability)

Stock market has too much control now.

[Mike K.]

Except during the time employees were considered a asset instead of a disability (liability)

Stock market has too much control now.

All expenses are liabilities for a company. That’s standard accounting parlance. And the liability is not the employee, but the wage paid to the employee.

The stock market has as much and as little control as it has always had. Fundamentally the difference between the stock market of 1946 and the stock market of 2018 is immaterial save for the many regulations introduced to protect investors and thwart manipulation of the markets (although it’s not an exact science and likely never will be).

[rjag]

Except during the time employees were considered a asset instead of a disability (liability)

Stock market has too much control now.

 

Its not just publicly traded business that seeks profits....I would look at employees as an investment not a liability. If I can pay someone $20/hr plus benefits (say $27.50 for employer portion of cpp, ei plus health and dental etc) and extract $75/hr then there is a possibility that I may make a profit once I deduct cost of goods, utilities, lease, loans, and taxes to 3 levels of government. If I'm lucky I may make $5/hour from that one employee....thats the greed Ben and the rest of the uninformed are selling to the mob

Edited by rjag, 17 December 2018 - 09:35 PM.

[Belleprincess]

http://uvic.academia...CurriculumVitae

[sdwright.vic]

rjag... under you example your not part of the stock market, your a small business owner.

Lets talk more GM, Procter and Gamble, RBC, et al.

[sdwright.vic]

Oh come on Mike, watch National Lampoons Christmas Vacation... what happened to Christmas Bonuses? They went to investors and got taken away from employees. Wages stagnated so that dividends could be paid out higher to investors. I could go on...

[rjag]

rjag... under you example your not part of the stock market, your a small business owner.

Lets talk more GM, Procter and Gamble, RBC, et al.

Yes because small business employs more people by orders of magnitude and generates more revenues for regional economies which have a more direct impact locally

[sdwright.vic]

Then why are you getting defensive with me? I am not talking about small businesses. I am talking about large corporations?

[rjag]

Then why are you getting defensive with me? I am not talking about small businesses. I am talking about large corporations?

 

My comment was in response to Fog's. His and mine were generic and I dont see in his or yours where it narrowed the scope of discussion to publicly traded entities. 

[jonny]

The problem almost entirely stems from greed - including excessive greed - not just being socially acceptable, but being validated* and rewarded** at every opportunity. 

 

* - e.g. it's written into corporate law that a publicly-traded corporation exists to provide the best possible return to its shareholders...which means by law a corporation is expected to be greedy.

 

** - e.g. look at how one's social success is measured first and foremost by financial success.

 

Excessive greed was-is the downfall of communism and is well on its way to being the downfall of capitalism as well.  No system can work well for long until excessive greed is made to be unacceptable or even abhorrent in the eyes of general society.

 

Been many years since I took my Corporate Law courses, but it's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about.

 

I don't see the word profit anywhere in the Business Corporations Act.  

 

http://www.bclaws.ca...tatreg/02057_02

 

Greed is subjective. One person's greed is another person just getting what they think they are due. To one person a surgeon working at RJH making $500k per year is greed. To the surgeon, they are just making what they think is fair given their extensive skillset. 

Edited by jonny, 18 December 2018 - 11:44 AM.

[spanky123]

 

• The vast majority of corporations never turn a profit.
• Many successful corporations begin by accruing significant amounts of debt, which is then paid off over a period of time once the corporation begins to turn a profit.
• The amount of time between the founding of a corporation and it being 100% self-sustaining can take many years, even decades.
• Corporate profits also translate to corporate investment, helping to sustain other corporations through their formative years or re-investing capital in a variety of investment channels, some of which may be charitable or philanthropic or investments in a society's culture, education, research or the arts.

Corporations don't just hoard money. They employ individuals. They invest in their communities and they ultimately provide services that society needs.

 

 

If we look at the most recent CFAX Santa's campaign, the vast majority of the money came from local companies.

[sdwright.vic]

Which they use to deduct from their profit in the form of write offs to non profits.

[spanky123]

Which they use to deduct from their profit in the form of write offs to non profits.

 

There is some tax benefit if you donate personally or corporately. In either event it still costs you more money then the benefit.

[Mike K.]

Which they use to deduct from their profit in the form of write offs to non profits.

 

Which any Canadian can deduct from their personal income tax. It's good to give, and local companies give a lot. Without their charity every year many organizations that do amazing work in our community wouldn't be nearly as well equipped as they are.

[Baro]

non-anonymous charity is marketing.

[Mike K.]

How much did Citified Media give this year to local charities, and to whom?

[jonny]

A corporation is simply a legal entity. It is a person under the law who can sue or be sued and can enter into legal contracts with other persons and entities. Co operatives and Stratas are two examples of corporations.