Jump to content

      













Photo

District of Saanich - Mayor and council general discussion


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
1208 replies to this topic

#1201 57WestHills

57WestHills
  • Member
  • 1,272 posts

Posted 21 October 2018 - 04:56 PM

Why would the police have a tough time?


Hayes will become the Chair of the Police Board.

In the current fiscal year SPD did get a minor budget increase, however, the Saanich Police Association (police union) had been without a contract for years and settled. The result of the New contract was a pretty significant retro payment being required which consequently took a big chunk out of the actual operational budget for the Department. The previous Mayor advocated for giving SPD it's full required budget allotment (by Saanich's estimate, not SPD's request). Hayes led the "no" vote on that - Hayes won and hence cuts came.

So, Saanich, in a far less public manner than Victoria, cut ancilliary services. Counselling, block watch, and a few other community things took the brunt which is a shame as IMO that's what makes SPD one of the best Departments in the country.

Hayes has gone after the Police budget before, and with so many new councilors it's a bit hard to tell where they will all settle, but SPD in it's current form has very minimal financial freedom so any further reduction will cut Departmental capacity.

That said - perspective changes in the Mayors seat and Hayes I don't think has ever been on the Police Board.

Lastly, Saanich needs a new Chief this summer. SPD has never had an external Chief - well, Save the first one in 1906. I could see Hayes going outside the walls of Saanich; I don't have an opinion on that really but it would be an interesting move for a generally very successful Police agency.

#1202 Mystic-Pizza

Mystic-Pizza
  • Member
  • 623 posts

Posted 21 October 2018 - 05:40 PM

Hayes will become the Chair of the Police Board.

In the current fiscal year SPD did get a minor budget increase, however, the Saanich Police Association (police union) had been without a contract for years and settled. The result of the New contract was a pretty significant retro payment being required which consequently took a big chunk out of the actual operational budget for the Department. The previous Mayor advocated for giving SPD it's full required budget allotment (by Saanich's estimate, not SPD's request). Hayes led the "no" vote on that - Hayes won and hence cuts came.

So, Saanich, in a far less public manner than Victoria, cut ancilliary services. Counselling, block watch, and a few other community things took the brunt which is a shame as IMO that's what makes SPD one of the best Departments in the country.

Hayes has gone after the Police budget before, and with so many new councilors it's a bit hard to tell where they will all settle, but SPD in it's current form has very minimal financial freedom so any further reduction will cut Departmental capacity.

That said - perspective changes in the Mayors seat and Hayes I don't think has ever been on the Police Board.

Lastly, Saanich needs a new Chief this summer. SPD has never had an external Chief - well, Save the first one in 1906. I could see Hayes going outside the walls of Saanich; I don't have an opinion on that really but it would be an interesting move for a generally very successful Police agency.

 

That will NEVER happen. Their is a reason Saanich has always promoted it's chief from within the department. Because it works, and the officers respect one of their own.

 

All Haynes has to do is look at the long, long failed  history of the VicPDr hiring it's chiefs from outside. The Current chief is the first one that promoted up through the VicPD until he made Deputy Chief and now Chief in years and years.  Saanich will never make that mistake, and they never have.


Edited by Mystic-Pizza, 21 October 2018 - 05:41 PM.

  • Bingo likes this

#1203 Sparky

Sparky

    GET OFF MY LAWN

  • Moderator
  • 10,557 posts

Posted 21 October 2018 - 06:16 PM

^^ Well that certainly clears that up.

Thanks for that. Now I need to pull out my financial statement reading glasses and have a peek. Any idea to why it took so long to reach a collective agreement?

I feel that Atwell and the police department might have had an uneasy courtship after SPD coincidentally kept bumping into him at various locations, so I have to wonder if they ever buried the hatchet.

I am still a little confused as to what the "no" vote had to do with having to cut back on other programs. Doesn't the municipality just crank up the mill rate when operational costs increase?

I know Fred is against tax increases, but I was of the opinion that he helped keep an eye on inappropriate spending. So what you are saying is that he was responsible for keeping a lid on the police budget so any increase in payroll costs would be funded out of other expense line items in the policing budget.

No?

#1204 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member
  • 4,241 posts
  • LocationVictoria BC

Posted 21 October 2018 - 07:39 PM

I wouldn't give the "split" very much traction in many of the local outcomes. For some incumbents it was their TIME to loose.

I personally think that Rob's votes came almost all from people not thrilled with Fred as an option.   



#1205 57WestHills

57WestHills
  • Member
  • 1,272 posts

Posted 21 October 2018 - 09:09 PM

Thanks for that. Now I need to pull out my financial statement reading glasses and have a peek. Any idea to why it took so long to reach a collective agreement?

I feel that Atwell and the police department might have had an uneasy courtship after SPD coincidentally kept bumping into him at various locations, so I have to wonder if they ever buried the hatchet.

I am still a little confused as to what the "no" vote had to do with having to cut back on other programs. Doesn't the municipality just crank up the mill rate when operational costs increase?

I know Fred is against tax increases, but I was of the opinion that he helped keep an eye on inappropriate spending. So what you are saying is that he was responsible for keeping a lid on the police budget so any increase in payroll costs would be funded out of other expense line items in the policing budget.

No?

 

Collective Agreement - I think Saanich & SPA actually settled pretty quickly after they started negotiations. To oversimplify a bit, Vancouver settles first most every round. Then 10 of the 11 other Municipal agencies bargain thereafter using Vancouver as a model (Nelson doesn't hop on the Vancouver train). Vancouver started late as the arbitration for the previous contract, which essentially expired on signing, took a long time. This process certainly does not make every Municipal agency get the same contract, of course, but it is a baseline. Sort of off-topic but noteworthy is Delta signed a long one (8 years? maybe) and I do not think Oak Bay has even settled yet. SPA is about to expire again I think. I am a bit out of date on the details, but more broadly this is all still correct. I do not think Saanich could have reasonably signed earlier; it would be a bad situation for both sides at the bargaining table. 

 

Atwell - speaking a bit out of my area of knowledge, but I think the relationship between the Mayor and both SPD & SPA got a lot better as time went on. He was, financially, a huge advocate for the Department at Council. His complaint about being pulled over was actually pulled (by him) prior to the OPCC really being involved at all. There was a bit of a sideshow going on, obviously.

To the "No" for increase - Saanich held onto a reserve fund to contribute to backpay. The amount in this fund, my understanding of the time, was that the amount was insufficient. Not that I watch Saanich budgeting that closely, but, that reserve liability pot should appear again because I think that the SPA contract expires this year? In any event, the pay liability for the Department this year exceeded their ability to actually pay so some civilian positions were cut. Adding complexity to this is a myriad of projects that Saanich (Police) have minimal control over which are not cheap. Technology changes, mostly, notably the radio system and in car computers which cost a lot of money and are getting replaced in the same financial year. 


  • Sparky likes this

#1206 lanforod

lanforod
  • Member
  • 7,195 posts
  • LocationSaanich

Posted 21 October 2018 - 09:30 PM

I personally think that Rob's votes came almost all from people not thrilled with Fred as an option.   

I agree with that, mine is one of them; if it had been just 2 options on the ballot, Haynes and Atwell, I still think Haynes would have won (not my original prediction, as I didn't expect the slate to blow it so badly).

 

Saanich council is going to be a bit interesting to watch. The past 4 years it was only interesting due to Atwell, now it'll all be a bit interesting with all the new faces.

 

Mersereau and Plant had by far the best ground game, IMO, especially Mersereau. I'm not surprised she did so well. 


Edited by lanforod, 21 October 2018 - 09:31 PM.


#1207 Bingo

Bingo
  • Member
  • 16,666 posts

Posted 22 October 2018 - 11:38 AM

Okay, the results are in and the campaign is over, so lets see more action on getting those ugly signs taken down.


  • Bernard likes this

#1208 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member
  • 4,241 posts
  • LocationVictoria BC

Posted 22 October 2018 - 11:42 AM

I am doing some analysis of the Saanich vote and one thing that may be the case (I need to crunch some more numbers) is that the people that voted for Atwell largely only voted for the slate candidates.   As I said, I need to crunch the numbers to be more comfortable with that conclusion but the preliminary work says that was the case



#1209 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 50,328 posts

Posted 22 October 2018 - 11:45 AM

This thread has now closed.

 

A new thread has been created for the 2018-2022 term: https://vibrantvicto...cal-discussion/


Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


 



1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users