2617 replies to this topic

[57WestHills]

Making transit infrastructure try and "break even" is ridiculous. It's why governments collect revenue, you know, to prove service and build stuff. Interesting in Toronto today their new-ish airport to downtown rail line had to durastically cut its fares because it's break even fare point was so high very few would pay it. All the attempts to create revenue from the traditionally revenue free all always seem to lead to ridiculousness.. Port Mann, Golden Ears, BC Ferries - all probably would cost less being fully public. And to going to be awesome when the government needs to buy out the private portion of the Canada Line in a couple decades "at a fair market value," whatever that means for a rapid transit line?

Edited by 57WestHills, 23 February 2016 - 01:42 PM.

[nagel]

Making transit infrastructure try and "break even" is ridiculous. It's why governments collect revenue, you know, to prove service and build stuff. Interesting in Toronto today their new-ish airport to downtown rail line had to durastically cut its fares because it's break even fare point was so high very few would pay it. All the attempts to create revenue from the traditionally revenue free all always seem to lead to ridiculousness.. Port Mann, Golden Ears, BC Ferries - all probably would cost less being fully public. And to going to be awesome when the government needs to buy out the private portion of the Canada Line in a couple decades "at a fair market value," whatever that means for a rapid transit line?

 

I'm ok with road pricing schemes and congestion taxes but for a toll bridge, if the revenue isn't even coming close to projections, eventually you have to absorb the debt into general debt.

[lanforod]

No information has been provided that back up that it will be paid off. How many skytrain or LRT lines will there be by 2030, when it is supposedly going to start breaking even due to increased volumes?

 

In addition to what we currently have, Evergreen will be up and running, and probably Surrey's initial LRT rail. Broadway to UBC will likely be under construction or just completed at that time. Nothing else beyond that in 14 years.

[Mike K.]

These projects take time. Commuters need incentive to use toll roads, and right now that incentive is diminished by several free options available. Once more crossings become tolled the revenues will begin to shift but you've got to start somewhere, right?

 

I mean on the one hand we've got people beating drums saying that we need to toll suburban roads and make suburbanites pay for their lifestyle choices, then on the other we've got people beating drums that toll roads are a failure and big infrastructure costs money and that money will take  along time to pay back.

[nagel]

These projects take time. Commuters need incentive to use toll roads, and right now that incentive is diminished by several free options available. Once more crossings become tolled the revenues will begin to shift but you've got to start somewhere, right?

I mean on the one hand we've got people beating drums saying that we need to toll suburban roads and make suburbanites pay for their lifestyle choices, then on the other we've got people beating drums that toll roads are a failure and big infrastructure costs money and that money will take along time to pay back.

I think what they're saying is a failure is the idea that the idea will entirely be paid back by increased usage. There's no evidence that is going to happen. They aren't exactly sharing the information they are basing their long term financial plan on. And even the former auditor general apparently issued a qualified opinion on the statements relating to this venture.

[Mike K.]

The Coquihalla took a long time to be paid back and it was eventually paid back. So too will the bridge, be it in 15 years or 25, it'll pay for itself.

[nagel]

15-25 is a bit off. 15 is the best case annual break even point. In the meantime the losses increase the debt. They won't tell how much. Logically it would approach 5 billion.

[57WestHills]

The Coquihalla was also publically managed without the need to pay a contractor additional money with financial protections for something that was going to be done anyways. We get to pay Trio or whatever they're called for the Port Mann bridge a guaranteed income baseline no matter what traffic levels are. The Coquihalla had a higher toll and all of that went to general revenue immediately without a private company muddying the waters.

[Mike K.]

We like it when a private company comes in because it helps manage risks, but we don't like it when that private company expects a return on the risk they helped us manage.

 

We could have taken on this project without a P3 but it would have cost more, it would have come with significant delays, and the payback to the tax payer would have taken far longer. Just look at the Johnson Street Bridge as an example of how public projects can (and often do) go sideways. If we had a P3 at the JSB it would have been operational by now and the costs would have been reigned in from the very start instead of us chasing a design that we then needed to turn into a one-of-a-kind functioning 100-year bridge.

[57WestHills]

Johnson St bridge is admittedly a black eye to public projects, but also not indicative of the norm. Canada Line was privately managed and was a gong show, too.

I'm not sure what risk Trio is taking on for the public other than, like BC Ferries, hiding what is actually public debt under a rug.

[VicHockeyFan]

So let's see what we've got here...

 

Rich Coleman sweeping the homeless off the streets

Ads on TV on a few items

The new fix-your-school-by-March-2017 fund

Minimum wage raise maybe

The province fixing our sewage log-jam

The province now taking action on amalgamation

[lanforod]

I don't think there are any major issues yet with Christys Liberals that could result in a defeat. Certainly nothing like the last time around. The lack of a LNG industry so far maybe, though I doubt that's a surprise to anyone.

[LeoVictoria]

I don't think there are any major issues yet with Christys Liberals that could result in a defeat. Certainly nothing like the last time around. The lack of a LNG industry so far maybe, though I doubt that's a surprise to anyone.

 

Agreed.  BC is doing well and if they can keep it that way the Liberals will be easily re-elected.   The biting issue might be housing but that's hardly in the control of the provincial government.

[Bernard]

There is a new political party being formed called the Vancouver Island Party

 

 

Leader Robin Richardson

143-7 Chief Robert Sam Lane

Victoria, BC

V9A 7N3

Phone: (250) 388-4274

Email: rmrich@telus.net

Website: www.VanIsleParty.com

Edited by Bernard, 14 May 2016 - 01:59 PM.

[nagel]

Time to secede and get the Feds to pay for a free ferry system?

[57WestHills]

The Eastern ferries that cross provincial lines are federally subsidized. No where near free.

But alas, I really dislike regional political parties, particularly at the provincial level where government should be reasonably able to cater to the various needs of the Province. I don't like the Liberals generally, but they do seem to address issues across the Province.

[VicHockeyFan]

 

New political party wants Vancouver Island to be Canada's 11th province

 

...Robin Richardson said through a news release on Monday the Vancouver Island Party will contest the May 17, 2017 provincial election and has a two-fold mission...

 

 

 

http://www.peninsula.../383697841.html

[John M.]

Saanich North-Islands will be a three-way re-match, with NDP incumbent Gary Holman, Green candidate (And deputy leader) Adam Olsen, and BC Liberal Stephen Roberts. My money is on Olsen, but I wouldn't count out anyone, least of all Holman.

In another news, rumour around the water cooler is Maurine Karigianis won't be running again, and that a current Esquimalt City Councillor is gearing up for a run, and that a current Metchosin Councillor and former Esquimalt Councillor are interested in the BC Liberal nomination in the riding. I've also heard that the Greens will be running a well-known name too.

[Nparker]

The Liberals will have a better than usual shot at winning seats in the CRD next spring as the NDP and Greens split the left-of-centre vote. 

[Bernard]

The Liberals will have a better than usual shot at winning seats in the CRD next spring as the NDP and Greens split the left-of-centre vote. 

In 2009 the Greens ran a full slate in BC, in 2013 they did not.   This gives us good data to measure the impact of the Green vote on the NDP and the Liberals.   What the data shows is that the Greens take more from the Liberals than they take from the NDP.    A good example of this is Saanich North and the Islands in 2013, the Liberal vote went down more than the NDP vote allowing Holman to win.   In Oak Bay Gordon Head Andrew Weaver had more of an impact on Ida Chong's vote than Jessica Vander Veen's

 

Details at this link:

 

https://youtu.be/TTRvqbYZkaU

Edited by Bernard, 22 June 2016 - 01:40 PM.