1257 replies to this topic

[Brantastic]

I don't think it's as much an issue of the quantity of public space as it is the quality. I think if you build quality public space, people will fill it, whether it be residents of the immediate area, people looking for a place to sit on their breaks at work or those just meeting a friend for lunch. I live in Saanich but often meet friends for coffee in Market Square or inside the Atrium (which, while private and indoor, functions much like public space), go for walks along the Westsong Walkway or Fisherman's Wharf, or sit and read in Dragon Alley.

Places like Centennial Square or the public space near Delta or the new JSB public space are dead zones as people simply have no reason to visit them (unless I'm heading there simply to ponder how they could have been constructed better, but I doubt many people besides myself do such odd things with their time). With the JSB space, it is clear that the views are the real draw here, but the same views could be achieved without an open expanse of brick devoid of anything in it. Some food or coffee kiosk here (as you mention) with a few picnic tables would make all the difference. I assume the Janion Plaza will become more populated once the ground floor fills in.

That being said, the "obvious need" for public space in the area is simply untrue. What bothers me most is that the NJ development actually contains a major element of public space with alleys, walkways and plazas and for the most part it looks to be of high quality with true "sticky edges" that would actually attract people and encourage them to stay awhile rather than simply pass through. I have some issues with the massing but the loss of public space is not a logical criticism of the development. Any public space created here would fail in the absence of the project as the open space would be simply too... open, like other failed public spaces in the area.

[Bingo]

With the JSB space, it is clear that the views are the real draw here, but the same views could be achieved without an open expanse of brick devoid of anything in it

I assume the Janion Plaza will become more populated once the ground floor fills in.

 

But the view of the Clipper terminal from the Janion Plaza will be obscured once the Junk Building project is built.

However, that possibility will be compensated for by watching the skateboarders on the new bridge that are not using the sidewalk.

[Nparker]

... the NJ development actually contains a major element of public space...the loss of public space is not a logical criticism of the development. Any public space created here would fail in the absence of the project as the open space would be simply too... open, like other failed public spaces in the area.

This.

[G-Man]

Good comments Brantastic! I agree though I think that quantity will still come into it to a certain degree because there are simply a limited amount of humans in the city to fill even high quality spaces. That said, the essence of your point is good and should be what the DRA is focusing on. Imagine if instead of insisting on the City providing more public space downtown either through outright land acquisition or through land deals with developers, that they said spend that same amount of money making places like Pioneer Square or Franklin Green more "sticky" as you say. 

[jasmineshinga]

I just had to Google "Pioneer Square" - and was surprised I've wandered past and through it for two years without realizing it had a name. I've not paused for longer than it takes to read a cenotaph as the element that usually likes to occupy the space is ... pungent at a minimum. CoV really should focus more on making green spaces/parks/public amenities attractive and SAFE for people to want to spend time in.

[G-Man]

Exactly quality public space not just a sheer vast amount of it.

[G-Man]

I have a new post up on my latest trip, have a look! https://www.sidewalk...ng-philadelphia

[Sparky]

I have a new post up on my latest trip, have a look! https://www.sidewalk...ng-philadelphia

 

That was fun. I hunger for travel stuff. 

 

Thanks G-Man.

[G-Man]

I enjoyed eating my way through Philly too!

[dasmo]

Did you eat at ZAHAV?

[G-Man]

No but looking at the website makes me wish I had! I did go to a great Jewish Deli in Montgomery County though.

[dasmo]

It was very good! Plan it for your next visit. Show up at 5:00 and wait to get a seat at the bar. 

Philadelphia was a great city. Also a happy surprise for me.  Great art museums, food, public market, neighbourhoods. 

[G-Man]

Just finished my latest post. This time on Atlantic City, New Jersey! It was way more fun than I expected. https://www.sidewalk...g-atlantic-city

[Laszlow]

Just finished my latest post. This time on Atlantic City, New Jersey! It was way more fun than I expected. https://www.sidewalk...g-atlantic-city

 

 

Just had a wander myself through your blog - Excellent!

I was most interested in the piece about The Gorge. I live right there in Gorge Burnside - "Hey you can see my house in one of your pix!!!!"area. I have lived in a lot of what I would call industrial zones - in the US, Canada, and South America. 

It is certainly an interesting spot. The surroundings - light industrial and now social housing don't bother me but I was intrigued when I moved here a few years ago to see "whats-what?"

So I started to chat with as many neighbours as I could. And there was a meeting a couple/three years ago at the community center about those tiny library things and city grants for whatever ...

MAN!!!! What an eye-opener.

We don't have a community. Everyone ... and I kid you not - everyone I talked to wanted nothing to do with community. Leave me alone! Was the battle cry. In fact, I will be interested in seeing if our record is intact this Halloween. 4 years no kids trick or treating.

Now don't get me wrong - nice folks. Would always lend a hand if you needed something or were in trouble - but as for "Hey let's get together and have a ...." Not on your life Skippy!

Anyway - great blog! Will look forward to the next installment.

(I have traveled all over and walking cities is the best!)








 

[G-Man]

Thanks Laszlow - I appreciate it. I think that the challenge with older suburban communities is that they were built in a time that the car was predominant and community didn't happen on your street. I think that this will change as the areas density and we see more neighbourhood centres. It is a great area in my opinion.

[G-Man]

New post up on the Colquitz River Park. I did not know how cool this park this was. Let me know what you think!

 

https://www.sidewalk...uitz-river-park

[Bingo]

We need more sidewalks in Saanich so I support G-Man for the next mayor... to git 'er done.  

[Mike K.]

It's an amazing green space, isn't it? The first time I ventured through it (not that long ago, a few years back maybe) I was shocked that it wasn't a more popular green space.

[Brantastic]

It's lovely, isn't it? I had heard of it and seen it on Saanich maps, but only visited for the first time a little over a month ago. It makes for a good, leisurely bike ride as well! 

Thanks for the post!

[lanforod]

New post up on the Colquitz River Park. I did not know how cool this park this was. Let me know what you think!

 

https://www.sidewalk...uitz-river-park

 

I've been through it several times when cycling to town. Beautiful on a late spring/summer/early fall afternoon!