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British Columbia real-estate and foreign buyer taxes


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#781 rjag

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 10:22 AM

Whats a few billion $ when its this...

 

https://info.bcasses...ver-region.aspx

 

greater-van.png

 

 

And the whole Province is valued at just under $2Trillion



#782 Mike K.

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 10:24 AM

How many empty homes do you see in Fernwood or Vic West or in GordonHead? You're a real estate junkie, you should be able to pull that number?

As for the $1b-$2b in money laundering, yes its good to make efforts to stop or reduce it...what is the total value of sales in Vancouver in a year? When I see 1 sale, the White Spot land for $245million or the $100million for the 2 Chevron locations in downtown Van then a couple of billion is barely a ripple

https://biv.com/arti...al-estate-deals

That’s the thing, right? Merely presenting the situation as a fargone conclusion that speculation MUST be at the root of the housing crisis, and not the ridiculous lack of housing supply, creates the narrative that paints developers, local home buyers and the small quota of non-local real-estate purchasers as the problem.

But the real problem here is the Isitt mentality, that we “live on an island,” and therefore we are destined to suffer because we can’t build beyond existing urban areas, we can’t build on logged, re-logged, logged and re-logged land because it’s pristine, we can’t extend municipal water to new communities, we can’t build proper highways, we can’t water our lawns in a rainforest, we can’t drive cars, we can’t, we can’t, we can’t.

But what we can do is strangle the supply of housing while bemoaning the lack of housing.

Remember when the AirBnB ban was supposed to solve the housing crisis? When garden suites were supposed to solve the housing crisis? When a fast-tracked rental permitting process was supposed to solve the housing crisis? Now Isitt wants taxpayers to build City of Victoria-operated apartments to solve the housing crisis. And on it goes.
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#783 Nparker

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 10:25 AM

...Hyperbole aside, I don’t like the implementation of the spec tax despite agreeing with the spirit of it (reduce empty homes)....

I am about as far from being a real estate speculator as one can be, but I find the implementation of this tax and the inane method of self-identification as entirely ill-conceived. Is there any empirical evidence that such a tax will result in an abundance of affordable homes suddenly becoming available or is it just another method to pad the provincial coffers in a way that seems to be acceptable to what this government presumes is their electoral base?


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#784 Mike K.

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 10:28 AM

Mark my words, the bureaucracy required to implement, operate and maintain this tax will ensure any revenues are swiftly redirected to pay for its upkeep. Then the government will champion the tax as revenue neutral. Hooray, great success!
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#785 SamCB

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 11:05 AM

I like what NewZealand has done: made it illegal for foreigners to own real estate.

Wouldn't that be a much easier way to accomplish the spirit of this legislation? Could BC do this? If so, why wouldn't they?

#786 Nparker

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 11:12 AM

...the bureaucracy required to implement, operate and maintain this tax will ensure any revenues are swiftly redirected to pay for its upkeep. Then the government will champion the tax as revenue neutral. Hooray, great success!

Of course if tax revenue is allegedly going to subsidize public housing, then revenue neutrality is a not such a success. While the government can spin this anyway they want - and they will - this tax is highly unlikely to achieve its goals of housing affordability.


Edited by Nparker, 20 January 2019 - 11:13 AM.

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#787 LeoVictoria

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 11:59 AM

That’s the thing, right? Merely presenting the situation as a fargone conclusion that speculation MUST be at the root of the housing crisis, and not the ridiculous lack of housing supply, creates the narrative that paints developers, local home buyers and the small quota of non-local real-estate purchasers as the problem.

But the real problem here is the Isitt mentality, that we “live on an island,” and therefore we are destined to suffer because we can’t build beyond existing urban areas, we can’t build on logged, re-logged, logged and re-logged land because it’s pristine, we can’t extend municipal water to new communities, we can’t build proper highways, we can’t water our lawns in a rainforest, we can’t drive cars, we can’t, we can’t, we can’t.

But what we can do is strangle the supply of housing while bemoaning the lack of housing.

Remember when the AirBnB ban was supposed to solve the housing crisis? When garden suites were supposed to solve the housing crisis? When a fast-tracked rental permitting process was supposed to solve the housing crisis? Now Isitt wants taxpayers to build City of Victoria-operated apartments to solve the housing crisis. And on it goes.


It’s almost like many things will help housing affordability and not just one. Shocking I know.

#788 rjag

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 12:01 PM

I like what NewZealand has done: made it illegal for foreigners to own real estate.

Wouldn't that be a much easier way to accomplish the spirit of this legislation? Could BC do this? If so, why wouldn't they?

 

Thats not quite accurate, its whats trotted out but you should look more closely at what they have done.

 

For me a better scenario is to ban non-Canadian purchase of existing homes. Instead allow non-Canadians to buy new stock to a maximum of say 2 units. When the property goes to be sold it has the added advantage of being offered only to Canadians as its now technically 'used'.

 

This has the effect of creating well-paying jobs for local trades and suppliers and also encourages not discourages foreign capital inflow which is what we need as a commodity based nation. 


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#789 rjag

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 12:02 PM

It’s almost like many things will help housing affordability and not just one. Shocking I know.

 

Can you name 1 jurisdiction anywhere in the Western world that has taxed or regulated their housing into affordability?



#790 LeoVictoria

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 12:06 PM

Whats a few billion $ when its this...

https://info.bcasses...ver-region.aspx

greater-van.png


And the whole Province is valued at just under $2Trillion


Value of homes has very little relation to value of homes for sale. An increase in pure demand from money laundering can have a large effect.

Of course we can debate this until the cows come home but it’s obvious that the stratospheric valuations in Vancouver are not supported by the fairly meagre local incomes. This kind of capital infusion is part of the reason why.

#791 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 12:10 PM

Can you name 1 jurisdiction anywhere in the Western world that has taxed or regulated their housing into affordability?


exactly

#792 rjag

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 12:20 PM

Value of homes has very little relation to value of homes for sale. An increase in pure demand from money laundering can have a large effect.

Of course we can debate this until the cows come home but it’s obvious that the stratospheric valuations in Vancouver are not supported by the fairly meagre local incomes. This kind of capital infusion is part of the reason why.

 

I agree that it contributes to it, but suggest that historically low interest rates and local euphoria played a far greater role in influencing the market. If it was just Vancouver and surrounding regions then perhaps there is some external cause at play thats unique to there, however we see the same inflated pricing in Victoria, Kelowna, Toronto, heck even Calgary until the last 3 years of the oil fiasco. Seattle, San Fran, London etc are all seeing the same types of price escalations....does the NDP really believe that this problem is unique to here?

 

People go where the jobs are....look at Detroit compared to Dallas, 8.5% unemployed compared to 3%. Houses sell at $38/per foot median price for a house in Detroit compared to $204 per foot in Dallas median rent in Detroit is $800 while Dallas is $1650

 

Seattle is $509 per ft to sell and $2500 per month in rents 

 

So what is truly affordable? we have 3 major cities with wildly different home and rent rates just like Vancouver and Toronto compared to Saskatoon or Winnipeg


Edited by rjag, 20 January 2019 - 12:22 PM.

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#793 Love the rock

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 12:55 PM

Thats not quite accurate, its whats trotted out but you should look more closely at what they have done.
 
For me a better scenario is to ban non-Canadian purchase of existing homes. Instead allow non-Canadians to buy new stock to a maximum of say 2 units. When the property goes to be sold it has the added advantage of being offered only to Canadians as its now technically 'used'.
 
This has the effect of creating well-paying jobs for local trades and suppliers and also encourages not discourages foreign capital inflow which is what we need as a commodity based nation.

You might be right . If we do it how you suggest how about one unit . . No passing down to relatives with the same name or buying units for newborns. With having it two units two for you ,two for your wife two for each of your kids or your
grandchildren .People seem to always find their way around the law .Will we have new condos holding meetings in foreign languages like what had happened on the main
land .Will it make more and more large pockets of non assimilating people in Canada.
I wonder with all the new people immigrating if we don’t have enough people to support the building trade as it is .Several people I know are trying to get trades people for renovations with little luck .Good trades people always seem to find a niche.
Besides when things slow down it tends to weed out the good from the mediocre workers.
Actually I think I prefer no more foreign ownership too just too many ways around the laws .If you own it now ok when it’s sold it must be to a Canadian no passing down property to family members .

#794 LeoVictoria

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 01:26 PM

I agree that it contributes to it, but suggest that historically low interest rates and local euphoria played a far greater role in influencing the market. If it was just Vancouver and surrounding regions then perhaps there is some external cause at play thats unique to there, however we see the same inflated pricing in Victoria, Kelowna, Toronto, heck even Calgary until the last 3 years of the oil fiasco. Seattle, San Fran, London etc are all seeing the same types of price escalations....does the NDP really believe that this problem is unique to here?

People go where the jobs are....look at Detroit compared to Dallas, 8.5% unemployed compared to 3%. Houses sell at $38/per foot median price for a house in Detroit compared to $204 per foot in Dallas median rent in Detroit is $800 while Dallas is $1650

Seattle is $509 per ft to sell and $2500 per month in rents

So what is truly affordable? we have 3 major cities with wildly different home and rent rates just like Vancouver and Toronto compared to Saskatoon or Winnipeg


Take a look at the affordability reports from RBC. Vancouver is well outside any historical pattern. Victoria is expensive but not unprecedented from an affordability perspective. House prices here seem fairly grounded to local incomes,

As for high rents in Seattle, that is actually a good sign that demand is actually high. Low rents and high house prices are a bigger issue.

#795 LeoVictoria

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 01:31 PM

Either way I do think the spec tax as it stands now is a bad idea. Not because I think the communists are coming but because I think it could torpedo the NDP and i would like them to stay in power to enact some of their other platform and not get kicked out for a tax that will only have a very minor impact on affordability.
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#796 spanky123

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 01:37 PM

Value of homes has very little relation to value of homes for sale. An increase in pure demand from money laundering can have a large effect.

 

Money laundering in itself doesn't have any impact on the value of homes, the criminal activity that generates the money is the issue. 

 

The largest source of this income is drug manufacturing and distribution and pot is a good chunk of that. Surprising though, most of the people who are screaming about housing affordability have no issue walking down to the local shop and buying a few grams/ounces!


Edited by spanky123, 20 January 2019 - 01:37 PM.

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#797 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 02:42 PM

Money laundering in itself doesn't have any impact on the value of homes, the criminal activity that generates the money is the issue.

The largest source of this income is drug manufacturing and distribution and pot is a good chunk of that. Surprising though, most of the people who are screaming about housing affordability have no issue walking down to the local shop and buying a few grams/ounces!


that’s my thought on the casino laundering thing and helps concerns. money laundering flows like water just looking for the easiest path. if casinos won’t launder money it’ll still get laundered. it’s not changing the original crime that’s producing the cash.
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#798 rjag

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 02:45 PM

that’s my thought on the casino laundering thing and helps concerns. money laundering flows like water just looking for the easiest path. if casinos won’t launder money it’ll still get laundered. it’s not changing the original crime that’s producing the cash.

 

Yup, they'll just find other ways...but Eby is selling it that he has shut the door to laundering...nope.


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#799 tjv

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 03:23 PM

And here it is.

attachicon.gifspec tax.jpg

gov.bc.ca/spectax

I'd like to see a form sent out to all residential property owners:  "Do you rent out all or a portion of your home?".  Lie on the form and its fraud for which there is no statute of limitations

 

I would give it 2 days before there is rioting in the streets



#800 Mike K.

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 06:24 PM

It’s almost like many things will help housing affordability and not just one. Shocking I know.


Wouldn’t supply make a more meaningful impact that a cocktail or half measures that can’t seem to get any traction?

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